T/C Seneca & Cherokee history

CoyoteJoe · May 1, 2011

AMEN!

ffg · Sep 13, 2021

I wonder if this fire myth holds true for the Patriot also, poor sales or the tooling was lost in the fire along with the Cherokee and Seneca which I was lead to believe

Kabulrocks · Jan 4, 2022

I currently have a double trigger .32 Cherokee, and years ago I had an early model .45 Seneca. Yah, I have never stopped kicking myself for getting rid of the Seneca. Anyway, if I recall, aren’t the stocks basically the same between the two? The Seneca has a brass nosepiece and patchbox, and the Cherokee doesn’t. Are there any other differences? I’m thinking also that at least on the early models, the triggers, lock, trigger guard and butt plate were the same?

Kabulrocks · Jan 4, 2022

Rat Trapper said:
Last night I was reading an old article in Muzzleloader magazine on the Seneca. It stated the prototypes were seen in 1973 and out on the market in 1974.

I’d like to try to find that article. What was the month/year/issue number of the magazine? Thank you!
....just noticed this was an old thread....

Kabulrocks · Jan 4, 2022

Saw this beauty recently and immediately thought of my old Seneca. This would be a fun project. It’s a .38 caliber half-stock, circa 1879.

.36Rooster · Jan 4, 2022

Here you go! Tells you everything you want to know and more, including the reason for the development of the cherokee, along with the reason for its uniquely high rate of twist that isn't found in any other production small bore muzzleloader. I believe it also goes into a few details about the factory fire at TC as well, which destroyed the machinery that was used to make cherokees and senecas, at which point they opted to cease building those little jewels entirely, explaining why they're no longer available. And if the article doesn't turn you into a die-hard blackpowder squirrel hunter, then nothing will.

http://www.namlhunt.com/mlsmallgame2.html

user 48679 · Jan 4, 2022

Kabulrocks said:
Anyway, if I recall, aren’t the stocks basically the same between the two?

The Seneca has a brass nosepiece and patchbox, and the Cherokee doesn’t.

Are there any other differences?

I’m thinking also that at least on the early models, the triggers, lock, trigger guard and butt plate were the same?

The Cherokee's had 24" bbls; Seneca's 27"bbls - thus, the RR thimbles are located differently than the other's.

The Cherokee forestock is shorter than a Seneca, and has a stepped-down nose; whereas the Seneca had the forend cap.

The Cherokee older models had DST's; the later Cherokee's has a single trigger.

Most early guns didn't have their model name on the barrel like later guns.

The surest way to differentiate the Seneca From the Hawken, besides the Hawken offering .50 & .54 calibers, was to measure the barrel thickness
( the Cherokee/Seneca/Patriot barrels are 13/16" across-the-flats)

Below, Seneca (upper), Cherokee (lower)

Kabulrocks · Jan 5, 2022

.36Rooster said:
Here you go! Tells you everything you want to know and more, including the reason for the development of the cherokee, along with the reason for its uniquely high rate of twist that isn't found in any other production small bore muzzleloader. I believe it also goes into a few details about the factory fire at TC as well, which destroyed the machinery that was used to make cherokees and senecas, at which point they opted to cease building those little jewels entirely, explaining why they're no longer available. And if the article doesn't turn you into a die-hard blackpowder squirrel hunter, then nothing will.

http://www.namlhunt.com/mlsmallgame2.html

Nice!! Thank you for the link.

Kabulrocks · Jan 5, 2022

Pietro said:
The Cherokee's had 24" bbls; Seneca's 27"bbls - thus, the RR thimbles are located differently than the other's.

The Cherokee forestock is shorter than a Seneca, and has a stepped-down nose; whereas the Seneca had the forend cap.

The Cherokee older models had DST's; the later Cherokee's has a single trigger.

Most early guns didn't have their model name on the barrel like later guns.

The surest way to differentiate the Seneca From the Hawken, besides the Hawken offering .50 & .54 calibers, was to measure the barrel thickness
( the Cherokee/Seneca/Patriot barrels are 13/16" across-the-flats)

Below, Seneca (upper), Cherokee (lower)

Thank you for the info and the pictures, I certainly appreciate it!

Stony Broke · Jan 5, 2022

Years ago my wife decided she wanted to start shooting matches alongside me. I found her a Seneca and had to shorten the buttstock some for her short arms. She did very good with it, but eventually developed back problems and had to quit. I gave the rifle to our club to use at the Rendezvous to teach kids with.

sqqy14 · Jan 5, 2022

Piecing these fine rifles out on ebay has contributed to their scarcity.

Bassdog1 · Jan 5, 2022

I own a Seneca and Cherokee both in 32 Cal and have 45 cal barrels for both. The 32s are definitely my favorite guns and are great small game guns. My Cherokee in 45 is a cheek buster with a Deer load and I tend to just shoot it at targets with reduced loads. I had a friend who was my go to guy for anything TC Related as he had a Massive collection of TC items. Unfortunately he recently found out that he had cancer and passed away three weeks ago. These little guns are a lot of fun to shoot but with rising prices I would probably save my money and have a builder put one together to my specifications unless I found a good deal. Having a 40 flintlock built now from a barrel and stock that I bought at a sale. But after that I am planning a 32 cal percussion with a 36" barrel based on the style of the Seneca.

sqqy14 · Jan 5, 2022

Piecing these fine rifles out on e-bay has contributed to their scarcity.

Jim K · Jan 5, 2022

.36Rooster said:
Here you go! Tells you everything you want to know and more, including the reason for the development of the cherokee, along with the reason for its uniquely high rate of twist that isn't found in any other production small bore muzzleloader. I believe it also goes into a few details about the factory fire at TC as well, which destroyed the machinery that was used to make cherokees and senecas, at which point they opted to cease building those little jewels entirely, explaining why they're no longer available. And if the article doesn't turn you into a die-hard blackpowder squirrel hunter, then nothing will.

http://www.namlhunt.com/mlsmallgame2.html

Really interesting. Thanks for posting that!!

cynthialee · Jan 5, 2022

sqqy14 said:
Piecing these fine rifles out on e-bay has contributed to their scarcity.

well it is the only way to sell it on eBay
list a whole rifle and they yank the ad

Kabulrocks · Jan 5, 2022

Bassdog1 said:
I own a Seneca and Cherokee both in 32 Cal and have 45 cal barrels for both. The 32s are definitely my favorite guns and are great small game guns. My Cherokee in 45 is a cheek buster with a Deer load and I tend to just shoot it at targets with reduced loads. I had a friend who was my go to guy for anything TC Related as he had a Massive collection of TC items. Unfortunately he recently found out that he had cancer and passed away three weeks ago. These little guns are a lot of fun to shoot but with rising prices I would probably save my money and have a builder put one together to my specifications unless I found a good deal. Having a 40 flintlock built now from a barrel and stock that I bought at a sale. But after that I am planning a 32 cal percussion with a 36" barrel based on the style of the Seneca.

Are you going to use a fast twist barrel like the Cherokee? Who makes such a barrel, I’m interested too.

flashpoint · Jan 5, 2022

Had that old orange factory finish removed on my .45 Seneca which revealed what the wood really looked like. No stain was used in the refinishing. Love that gun.

Eddie Southgate · Jan 5, 2022

I have a Seneca .36 that I bought not long after they first came out . I later bought a .45 barrel for it . Have been offered the chance to sell it for several times what I gave for it but it ain't going anywhere . Now that I am getting older it is even more handy than it was when I bought it and could easily carry a full size Hawken all day . 25-35 grains of fffg and a .350 ball for small game and a limited amount of 50 grains of ffg and either a .440 or .445 ball depending on the patching I have on hand will easily cover my deer hunting . I limit the .45 barrel shooting due to the thinness of the stock .

Bassdog1 · Jan 5, 2022

Kabulrocks said:
Are you going to use a fast twist barrel like the Cherokee? Who makes such a barrel, I’m interested too.

No I am most likely going to use a 1 in 48 twist and am researching them now to decide which one to buy. I really like the looks of my Seneca and the build will use a lot of the same features I have a TC patch box, nose cap, toe plate and butt plate. Stock will be maple a little longer length of pull with double wedge pins. This is a build I have been thinking about for quite a while.

flashpoint · Jan 5, 2022

Kabulrocks said:
Saw this beauty recently and immediately thought of my old Seneca. This would be a fun project. It’s a .38 caliber half-stock, circa 1879.

Nice gun.

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