- Joined
- Sep 2, 2021
- Messages
- 269
- Reaction score
- 403
Absolutely correct on Bismuth, stayed with 6s with Bismuth on pheasant, but my buddies had to go to 4s in steel to knock them down.
-
This community needs YOUR help today. We rely 100% on Supporting Memberships to fund our efforts. With the ever increasing fees of everything, we need help. We need more Supporting Members, today. Please invest back into this community. I will ship a few decals too in addition to all the account perks you get.
Sign up here: https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/account/upgrades -
Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.
We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.
Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103
Hunting with Smoothbore
- Thread starter Nuthatch
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
that is a beautiful BELLY POUCH. I have simular one's from my F&I, reenacting days. did you make yours?
good no tongue hanging out for the children to see. a nice deer!Mine is plain, it's not svelte at all, it's heavier than some and it has a rear sight and it's not pretty. BUT, it's super reliable (thanks to the Chambers Colonial Virginia flint lock), it's astonishingly accurate with ball, it's a 20 ga cylinder bore, it patterns well up to 25 yards, it's kills deer DRT; but best of all it's mine! built at TVM.
user 49399
54 Cal.
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2020
- Messages
- 1,583
- Reaction score
- 2,716
Robert Hoyt
Barrel repair
Freischutz Shop,
2379 Mt. Hope Road., Fairfield, Pa. 17320.
phone # 717-642-6696
Can bore it to a safe size smoothbore. Call early as he won't answer once his machines are working.
Griz44Mag
70 Cal.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2017
- Messages
- 4,326
- Reaction score
- 4,382
- Location
- Republic of Texas, District of Krum
If you are going to try shooting Dove with a Bess - make sure they aren't too close.
All I got was a cloud of feathers and a red mist.......
All I got was a cloud of feathers and a red mist.......
Treestalker
Treestalker
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2014
- Messages
- 4,051
- Reaction score
- 3,739
- Location
- Third Pond from the Great God Helios
Back in the dreamtime I used a Traditions 12ga single on doves. Getting too close was no problem as they were in afterburner mode at about 2 parsecs/min, LOL!
Got it! Thank you very much. Been on that website and they look pretty good, quite a few different choices of guns not seen very often.
Thank you. I gave him a ring yesterday but looks like he'll be out for a couple weeks. I'll try again after. I put a bid on a .54 at a good price. If that goes through, I might have something to work with.
10-bore is 0.775". Use .760 balls with patches,
megasupermagnum
45 Cal.
For your purposes, a 20 gauge would suffice with lead. They will hold a good enough pattern at 20 yards for turkey, and even 25 yards with the right combo. For big game, I'm going to assume you would be using a round ball. A 20 is definitely enough for upland game and small game. With non-toxic shot, that's going to depend. I'm not sure bismuth from a 20 is going to be very effective on turkeys. I'd spring for one of the heavier shots, Nice Shot #7.5 if you can get it, or even #9 TSS. Bismuth will work fine for small game. I have no idea about casting round balls of non-toxic stuff.
Don't discount the larger bores either. I'm a big bore fan, through and through. If I could duck hunt with an 8 gauge, I would. I'm a big time 10 gauge fan. 12 gauge/75 caliber is as common as it is for a reason. The big bores can still be loaded down, and they can also throw a lot of shot if you want. I wouldn't shoot steel from a muzzleloader. There's nothing good about steel shot, it is a raw deal all around. I think Nuthatch is exaggerating a little bit, but there's no doubt that steel shot from a muzzleloader is not very effective. Velocity is only part of the factor. You could step up in shot size, you would be looking at 1 or 2 sizes bigger than a modern shotgun shell. For ducks that's probably going to be #1. To get a pellet count to even remotely be effective on ducks, you'd be looking at shooting 1 1/2 oz or more, which is about the same as a modern 20 gauge shell with 1 ounce of #3 steel, but your muzzleloader probably wont pattern as tight, making the problem even worse. That's not something I'd shoot from a 20 gauge, it's a load for a 10 gauge. Bismuth is a big step up. #4 has the penetration for ducks to at least 40 yards, and has a fair pellet count. For small/upland game, I'd try #5, and maybe even #6. Bismuth is about like lead plus 1 size, so #4 bismuth, is like lead #5. The only other shot I'm aware of that can be fired with no protection is Nice Shot, which is an equivalent to lead... Except at $40 per pound. Anything else, ITX, Hevishot, HW13, TSS, etc. needs a modern thick plastic "steel shot" wad to protect the bore. I've fired plastic wads myself, and have not found them to be the problem many have found them to be. I've not shot 50 in a day though, but 5-10 is no issue.
I'd consider waiting a few months (hopefully), and Jim Kibler is coming out with a trade gun that will fit this description. For non-traditional single barrel guns, there is a TC new Englander in 12 gauge, but they are a bit pricey for what they are. If you can get one under $400, jump on it, but it probably wont happen. For the price people are asking for them, you may as well buy a custom (Kibler), or simply buy an actual original fowler or SXS. You will probably want a single barrel gun if you want to hunt big game with this. A SXS is fantastic for wing shooting, and turkey hunting, but it's a lot of variables in POI for shooting a single ball.
Don't discount the larger bores either. I'm a big bore fan, through and through. If I could duck hunt with an 8 gauge, I would. I'm a big time 10 gauge fan. 12 gauge/75 caliber is as common as it is for a reason. The big bores can still be loaded down, and they can also throw a lot of shot if you want. I wouldn't shoot steel from a muzzleloader. There's nothing good about steel shot, it is a raw deal all around. I think Nuthatch is exaggerating a little bit, but there's no doubt that steel shot from a muzzleloader is not very effective. Velocity is only part of the factor. You could step up in shot size, you would be looking at 1 or 2 sizes bigger than a modern shotgun shell. For ducks that's probably going to be #1. To get a pellet count to even remotely be effective on ducks, you'd be looking at shooting 1 1/2 oz or more, which is about the same as a modern 20 gauge shell with 1 ounce of #3 steel, but your muzzleloader probably wont pattern as tight, making the problem even worse. That's not something I'd shoot from a 20 gauge, it's a load for a 10 gauge. Bismuth is a big step up. #4 has the penetration for ducks to at least 40 yards, and has a fair pellet count. For small/upland game, I'd try #5, and maybe even #6. Bismuth is about like lead plus 1 size, so #4 bismuth, is like lead #5. The only other shot I'm aware of that can be fired with no protection is Nice Shot, which is an equivalent to lead... Except at $40 per pound. Anything else, ITX, Hevishot, HW13, TSS, etc. needs a modern thick plastic "steel shot" wad to protect the bore. I've fired plastic wads myself, and have not found them to be the problem many have found them to be. I've not shot 50 in a day though, but 5-10 is no issue.
I'd consider waiting a few months (hopefully), and Jim Kibler is coming out with a trade gun that will fit this description. For non-traditional single barrel guns, there is a TC new Englander in 12 gauge, but they are a bit pricey for what they are. If you can get one under $400, jump on it, but it probably wont happen. For the price people are asking for them, you may as well buy a custom (Kibler), or simply buy an actual original fowler or SXS. You will probably want a single barrel gun if you want to hunt big game with this. A SXS is fantastic for wing shooting, and turkey hunting, but it's a lot of variables in POI for shooting a single ball.
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2021
- Messages
- 269
- Reaction score
- 403
On Bismuth: My wife and I do an awful lot of pheasant hunting. She uses smokeless and had to move up to #4s from #6s using steel. Myself using Damascus 12ga doubles in ML and Damascus Cartridge I was able to stay with #6s using Bismuth. I believe Bismuth and lead can be used interchangeably.
Doc,
Doc,
Wildrangeringreen
40 Cal
Common Modern Shot shells are still loaded to BP specs, since MFG's don't know what guns you are putting them in lol. You do get a slight velocity boost and recoil reduction with smokeless, but it's not much, considering fast powders are used in shotshells (Red Dot burns so fast you'd almost think it were 777 lol). Smokeless doesn't automatically equal more velocity, nor does it automatically equal more pressure; it has to be loaded that way.
2-3 drams (55-80gr) of powder and 1/2-7/8 oz of shot wasn't an uncommon range to see 20 bore loaded with. The velocity will be between 800 and 1200fps, depending on the load and barrel. Not ironically, modern 20 bore ammunition shoots 1/2-7/8 oz of shot at around 1000-1400 fps lol.
Biggest issue with using steel shot in muzzleloaders is that the steels often used to make the barrels is softer than the shot, and that can damage the bore, that is unless you use something like a modern shotcup to protect the bore from the shot. Bismuth is better, generally, its close to the same hardness and density as lead. I like BB size for everything larger than pigeon, and smaller than Coyote, Buckshot 000 or 00 for anything Coyote size or larger, and no5 shot for small birds.
Last edited:
