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Patches being destroyed

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I have a couple .50 rifles with "tight" bores. With the Kentucky I contacted Pedersoli and with the common .490 ball they suggest using a .010 patch. The combination works great when loading. The retrieved patches are being shredded. It seems .010 is just not thick enough for either gun. I am currently looking into getting a RB mold in .480 and use that with a heavy durable patch.
The question: is there something else I can try to get the desired results of an intact patch leaving the muzzle?
 
@Flintlock Whiskey,
A much stronger cloth is a linen (100% flax) patch of about 0.015". I had a rifle that the only patch that would not shred was my linen patch. The problem is finding the linen from 100% flax with a really tight weave. You might be able to find linen at JoAnn's Fabrics. Wash hot and dry hot to tighten the weave.
 
@Flintlock Whiskey,
A much stronger cloth is a linen (100% flax) patch of about 0.015". I had a rifle that the only patch that would not shred was my linen patch. The problem is finding the linen from 100% flax with a really tight weave. You might be able to find linen at JoAnn's Fabrics. Wash hot and dry hot to tighten the weave.
I appreciate the information. Problem is anything thicker than .01" makes loading a real bear.
 
There are two reasons patches shred, sharp crown or lands, or "burning". The burning can be solved with an over powder wad before the patched ball. The sharp lands or crown can be fixed with lapping. A simple test for burning is to just wad up a patch as an over powder wad and try it. Lapping can be easily done with polishing or buffing compound . Don't use lapping compound on a new rifle, lapping compounds are more abrasive and should only be used on pitted bores.
 
I appreciate the information. Problem is anything thicker than .01" makes loading a real bear.
Yup, get a smaller ball rather than a smaller patch.

Get out your inside measuring Vernier calipers and measure the land to land diameter. Get a ball that is 0.010" smaller than the land to land diameter. If that comes to 0.490" and if that is too tight a load, then get the 0.485" or 0.480" ball.
 
There are two reasons patches shred, sharp crown or lands, or "burning". The burning can be solved with an over powder wad before the patched ball. The sharp lands or crown can be fixed with lapping. A simple test for burning is to just wad up a patch as an over powder wad and try it. Lapping can be easily done with polishing or buffing compound . Don't use lapping compound on a new rifle, lapping compounds are more abrasive and should only be used on pitted bores.
The most expiedient (and less expensive) way is to try the patch. Do you suggest a standard cleaning patch for an over powder wad?
 
Does the gun shoot accurately? Although useful for analysis of accuracy problems, finding pristine and undamaged used patches is not all that interesting or important to me if the gun is giving consistently accurate groups.
It does group well I have to say. But what I am consistently finding is a "ring" of patch cloth left over. Yesterday I did find bits of the patch smoldering on the ground and had to stomp them out before they started a fire. Defiantly going to try a over powder wad before ordering a $100 mold.
Thank you for your input,
W.S.
 
Most of the time, working on the crown solves the shredded patch problem. It is seldom a too-tight load. I’ve seen guns loaded with bore-sized balls and 0.018” patch material and no shredding. Hard to start but smooth loading once started.
Agreed. Starting a ball with an over sized piece of patch and then withdrawing it for inspection may show if a sharp crown is causing cutting.
 
There is very little chamfering to the crown. Chamfering the crown is defiantly not something I would attempt. Now, where to find a reputable gunsmith in the Phoenix area......
Most agree that a smooth chamfer or edge break at the muzzle are critical when shooting patched roundballs. There are a number of ways to accomplish.

A lot of folks like to use their thumb and a bit of sandpaper on bore crowns, but I take it a little further, just for the sake of consistency, at least in my opinion.

Here is my method to smooth out or polish a muzzle crown once it has been cut square to the bore that I have posted before. Really minimizes if not completely eliminating patches being damaged at the muzzle when loading.

I use a series of ball bearings, from about one and half times the bore diameter, to right around bore diameter, and use sandpaper of different grits from 120/180 up to 320 or finer (I take it up to 1000 grit for a mirror finish). A couple of turns of the muzzle over each ball bearing with progressively finer sandpaper over them gives a smooth barrel crown to bore transition

Basic idea is to hold the sandpaper over the ball bearing (you can place ball on the floor and hold paper with your feet, maybe on a pad or thin carpet if you don’t have a lathe to chuck up the barrel in) and rotate the barrel bore on the bearing with the sandpaper on it. Easy to keep barrel square with the floor. I’ll start with the larger diameter bearing and roughest grit paper and end with a smaller ball bearing near bore diameter, repeating with progressively finer grit sandpaper. I stop when I have a slight chamfer on bore and rifling lands that is highly polished.
1599165147312.jpeg

I use Dykem (or a Sharpie) to mark the inside the bore so I can easily see when I starting to clean up everything without going too far. Note the 60° chamfer in the photograph was cut on a lathe, I just use the ball bearings to break sharp edges and polish.
1599165342148.jpeg

Just note with either method. If your barrel is already finished, you are going to remove finish from the face of the bore if you don’t protect it. I’ve used ‘masking’ tape with a hole punched through it (use a wad punch), but only on other people’s gun’s, not worrying about it on mine.
 
It does group well I have to say. But what I am consistently finding is a "ring" of patch cloth left over. Yesterday I did find bits of the patch smoldering on the ground and had to stomp them out before they started a fire. Defiantly going to try a over powder wad before ordering a $100 mold.
Thank you for your input,
W.S.
What are you lubing with? I have only seen burning patches when oil-based lubes are used. Burnt-out centres are the result of a dry, flammable patch. Are you sure you have 100% natural fibre cloth? I have neer seen a water-base lubed patch of pure cotton or linen burn.
 
Does the bore cut up cleaning patches during cleaning. Use a copper bore brush with some evenly wrapped fine steel wool wrapped in it and remove (slowly) any ruff or sharp edges in the barrel. Also find a wasp nest and try adding a pinch over powder and under patch and ball, This might get rid of any blow through as wasp nest does not burn easily.
 
Most agree that a smooth chamfer or edge break at the muzzle are critical when shooting patched roundballs. There are a number of ways to accomplish.

A lot of folks like to use their thumb and a bit of sandpaper on bore crowns, but I take it a little further, just for the sake of consistency, at least in my opinion.

Here is my method to smooth out or polish a muzzle crown once it has been cut square to the bore that I have posted before. Really minimizes if not completely eliminating patches being damaged at the muzzle when loading.

I use a series of ball bearings, from about one and half times the bore diameter, to right around bore diameter, and use sandpaper of different grits from 120/180 up to 320 or finer (I take it up to 1000 grit for a mirror finish). A couple of turns of the muzzle over each ball bearing with progressively finer sandpaper over them gives a smooth barrel crown to bore transition

Basic idea is to hold the sandpaper over the ball bearing (you can place ball on the floor and hold paper with your feet, maybe on a pad or thin carpet if you don’t have a lathe to chuck up the barrel in) and rotate the barrel bore on the bearing with the sandpaper on it. Easy to keep barrel square with the floor. I’ll start with the larger diameter bearing and roughest grit paper and end with a smaller ball bearing near bore diameter, repeating with progressively finer grit sandpaper. I stop when I have a slight chamfer on bore and rifling lands that is highly polished.
1599165147312.jpeg

I use Dykem (or a Sharpie) to mark the inside the bore so I can easily see when I starting to clean up everything without going too far. Note the 60° chamfer in the photograph was cut on a lathe, I just use the ball bearings to break sharp edges and polish.
1599165342148.jpeg

Just note with either method. If your barrel is already finished, you are going to remove finish from the face of the bore if you don’t protect it. I’ve used ‘masking’ tape with a hole punched through it (use a wad punch), but only on other people’s gun’s, not worrying about it on mine.
This is good but I use valve lapping compound and to make it easier I solder the ball to a rod with a handle so i can spin it just like doing a valve job.
 
As I have said before, if not the crown or rifling as the problem it is too small of a ball or too thin a patch. Lubes MUST be tested of course as some really stink to keep fouling down. A burnt patch means gas is escaping past the ball.
 
Agree with the accuracy-is-paramount guys here. While developing the right load for a .62 rifle, yesterday I was shooting it at 100 yards. At 75 yards it is dead-on with 105 grains FFG Swiss, lubed with pure bear grease, and the patches are nearly reusable. But at 100 yards the 335-grain balls are dropping about 6”. So the charge was increased to 110 grains, with the report noticeably louder, absolutely perfect accuracy, and totally destroyed patches. No leading in the bore. I’m sticking with the pillow ticking patch material.
 
You an find linen at many estate sales or garage sales, when grandma's tablecloth and napkins are sold. Another place that often has these is Salvation Army. These are usually thinner than .015", but very strong and work well with saliva or light oil as a lube.

A small piece of felt works as a wad under the loaded ball (old hats or end pieces from a fabric store).
 

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