Brown Bess stock

FlinterNick said:

Agree Gus.

I‘ve spoken to Dan at Dunlap about copying a long land stock in the past, he’s very hesitant to do it.

Stocking making is a dying art, there’s just so little money or profit in it, that most wont’ do the work

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Flinter 2 said:

The biggest problem with those period muzzle loaders made in India and other venues in that area of the world besides the quality of the materials being used is that they are usually made by hand using common wood working and metal working hand tools, they are a cottage industry and most are made one at a time by one person using a very vague set of plans.
The parts are not interchangeable, no two lock plates or internal parts are the same, even the springs are individually forged to mate with the hand made locks and will not fit other locks.
So, most likely if you break a part, you can't order a new one, you have to find a gun smith that will be willing to make you a new part, and you have to be willing to pay for his/her time and talent.
Most good period gun builders use precarved/ pre inletted stock blanks that need very little fitting, if you want a new stock for your India made M/L you're going to have to have one made from a raw plank, the cost of the stock wood and the labor of a good gun builder will likely cost you as much and probably more than just buying a new India made gun and junking most of the parts of your old one.

Sorry, I've seen some good looking and good functioning India made muzzle loaders, but when a part breaks or wears out, you're kind of stuck with a fancy looking club.

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FlinterNick said:

Agree, the Indian made Brown Bess Muskets already don’t fit into the specific pattern they‘re intended for, and its usually the barrel dimensions that will throw off the Ability to re-stock. Most first model Brown Bess muskets had a breech around 1.4-1.5 in diameter.

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Flinter 2 said:

The parts are not interchangeable, no two lock plates or internal parts are the same, even the springs are individually forged to mate with the hand made locks and will not fit other locks.

So, most likely if you break a part, you can't order a new one, you have to find a gun smith that will be willing to make you a new part, and you have to be willing to pay for his/her time and talent.

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Loyalist Dave said:

WHICH is actually authentic, in a mildly annoying sort of way, but the parts don't often break.
LD

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Loyalist Dave said:

OR..., would it be simpler to get those two parts, as a set, to the many India based lock makers (for the folks "at home" there are several places the India musket parts are made) ..., get them to make the lock plates to take these parts, and thus establish a gage or standard, for the tumbler hole size and position as well as the sear screw location, size, and threads? Thus the rest of the lock might be a problem but at least those two parts would always fit or be very very close. No?

LD

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Artificer said:

Which begs the question, can these two parts be made to fit a majority of the India Brown Bess locks in use?

Tumbler for 1746 Willets ~ First Model Brown Bess, precision turned 4140 steel, hardened, tempered, made in the USA. - Track of the Wolf

Sear for 1746 Willets ~ First Model Brown Bess lock, precision cut 4140 steel, hardened, tempered, made in the USA. - Track of the Wolf

Gus

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FlinterNick said:

The tumbler for the Track of the Wolf lock set is CNC machined, not casted very difficult to change or work around on a different lock, I wouldn’t recommend it. Its also slightly smaller than the Rifle Shoppe’s 1740 Tumbler. The sear spring is just about the only part that can interchange, but not without some attention to the screw hole. Pedersoli’s sear springs are die formed and can be more easily shapped to fit another bess lock.

I’ve had a lot of luck replacing older pedersoli Grice Lock parts (1970’S ERA lock, not the current production) and Miroku Bess lock parts with Third model casted parts from the Rifle Shoppe and Butch’s Antique Gun Parts. Mainspring, Tumbler and Bridal and sear all work rather well.

For some reason third model parts seem to work the best, maybe Pedersoli and Miroku copied a third model and modified the rest to look like a 1755 pattern lock ?

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Artificer said:

Are you saying there are folks here in the U.S. that are making generic replacement parts like these for the India Bess's?

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Loyalist Dave said:

Alas, no. If the India lock makers standardized themselves as I suggested, then the current parts from the Rifle Shoppe would work, OR if they used Pedersoli Parts, that too would work. BUT..., They use their parts, and you can't use replacement tumblers.

I've not tried to "adapt" a replacement tumbler to an Indian lock plate. I guess I should see if the main hole is small enough to be enlarged (and at the same time kept round ) to accept an OTC tumbler... which then means the cock has to fit the new tumbler and I think the square hole in the Cock is "off" if you try to use it on an Italian or American made tumbler. Then of course you have the sear placement problem. AFTER all of that would the lock fit the original mortise ???

LD

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Loyalist Dave said:

OR..., would it be simpler to get those two parts, as a set, to the many India based lock makers (for the folks "at home" there are several places the India musket parts are made) ..., get them to make the lock plates to take these parts, and thus establish a gage or standard, for the tumbler hole size and position as well as the sear screw location, size, and threads? Thus the rest of the lock might be a problem but at least those two parts would always fit or be very very close. No?

LD

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Artificer said:

There are tool and spare parts lists in Bailey's works, that were sent here during the FIW and the AWI for use by their Artificers/Armorers to repair the King's Arms.

The number of tumblers, sears, bridles, cocks, etc. is pretty large; though they don't specify if all the parts were only to repair the Long Land Pattern Muskets, Short Land Muskets during the AWI, as well as Carbine and Pistol Locks.

I imagine the parts were oversize and un-hardened, as locks came from a number of different contractors and also would not have been interchangeable.

Gus

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Loyalist Dave said:

Alas, no. If the India lock makers standardized themselves as I suggested, then the current parts from the Rifle Shoppe would work, OR if they used Pedersoli Parts, that too would work. BUT..., They use their parts, and you can't use replacement tumblers.

I've not tried to "adapt" a replacement tumbler to an Indian lock plate. I guess I should see if the main hole is small enough to be enlarged (and at the same time kept round ) to accept an OTC tumbler... which then means the cock has to fit the new tumbler and I think the square hole in the Cock is "off" if you try to use it on an Italian or American made tumbler. Then of course you have the sear placement problem. AFTER all of that would the lock fit the original mortise ???

LD

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