gun show find - percussion long gun

approximately .410" diameter at the muzzle, smoothbore, caplock, 56" overall length with 39-1/4" round barrel, no identifying marks on lock, unique folding rod of some sort in its stock...

Just a WAG, German and plunder brought back from WW2, (disclaimer) I am probably 100% wrong.

I think this is from India, Nepal, or the south East Asian regions. The folding ramrod I have never seen before!

See how the maker used a breech loading shotgun hammer, and made a LONG nipple to make it work? Genius!

The wrist shape and checkering makes the stock looks like a British sporting rifle to me.
I don't think that folding ramrod/wiper would be practical for a rifle, but for a smooth bore, it's inspired- and eliminates the need for a forearm or thimbles.
How's the balance?

The hammer/nipple solution was most likely an expedient one - I've never seen a percussion nipple that long, nor a super long lockplate like that one.

The folding RR is a simple solution for long RR storage on the gun, but looks too flimsy for a rifle bore application

Now that one is interesting. Have you removed the barrel and lock to check for proof marks or any other markings on the underside ? Khyber Pass maybe

Thanks,
O.R.

OldRust said:

Now that one is interesting. Have you removed the barrel and lock to check for proof marks or any other markings on the underside? Khyber Pass maybe

Thanks,
O.R.

Click to expand...

no, I have not yet taken it apart to check for any internal markings... I will check this weekend

Weird enough that it would have come home with me. It has 3 very good things going for my interest the bore size, the very different nipple and hammer config. (Hammer looks originally for caps and not a latter suppository type. 3rd that folding ramrod.

Neat find look forward to see who made it.. I love them monkey gun types!

You east coast guys have all the luck! I love seeing this kind of stuff!

Truly unique. I've never seen anything like it. Good find.

This is a very high-end example of a native-made 'monkey gun', common to SE Asia. It is much better made and finished than the typical example, and shows extra care and attention to details, such as the hammer (which is not taken from a European arm), and the folding ramrod. These are in common use among the hilltribes of Vietnam, Burma and Thailand, for hunting. The users make their own powder (with sulphur and saltpeter sold in local markets - they make their own charcoal), and can either buy coarse shot or make their own. The large, flat-ended nipple is intended for use with paper caps - local apothecaries make up and apply dabs of a percussion compound to sheets of rice paper, and the shooter tears off a dab as needed and stuffs it into the large recess in the hammer nose. I've seen them in use in SEA, but never so well-made a specimen. Local 'smiths build them with barrels of seamless steel tubing, also sold in local markets, and either make or used recycled parts, such as locks, for the rest of the arm.

mhb - MIke

It looks to me has a bit of this and bit of that which is a favourite way by middle East country gun makers on producing a gun that a native will be able to use .
Feltwad

Let us know if that has a coil spring for a main spring when you take it apart. Be warned, some 3rd world guns were put together strangely!

hrt4me,

There are several you tube videos of the hill people Of Cambodia, Thialand and Viet Nam building rifles of a close copy of what you've posted. What stood out to me was the long nipple on the gun you posted and the ones that are in those videos.

Kno-ie said:

hrt4me,

There are several YouTube videos of the hill people Of Cambodia, Thailand and Vietnam building rifles of a close copy of what you've posted. What stood out to me was the long nipple on the gun you posted and the ones that are in those videos.

Click to expand...

@Kno-ie, thanks for the tip

unfortunately I cannot find any of those videos, so I would be grateful if you wouldn't mind please sharing a link or few to some of those videos you mentioned to get me pointed in the right direction...

hrt4me,
All I did was typed in Muzzleloader builds of Asia. That started series of videos from the far east. I have never learned how to post links other sites or items.

thanks, that's a starting point

There are no markings anywhere internally; both lock sideplates appear as if they could have been make from blanks for making knives!