Flintlock kits

I intend to make a Tulle. I figure a Rice 20 gauge barrel they advertise at 2.14 pounds. Gunstocks Plus makes stocks at reasonable prices, metal parts from Track. With my dseteriorating physical condition I need as light a flintlock as possible or give up hunting!

GoodRabbitPilgrim said:

I'm not pro or anti kibler, I just want to put together as many makers as I can because I'll be lucky if one imports to here.

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Hi Pilgrim
Where is here?
I was in a similar situation last year and was able to import a Chambers Kit and went Chambers as they were more hands on than Kibler and had experience wih the export to Australia.
Kibler were open to export but had not done so.
No other supplier , including Dunlap, replied to my queries.

LawrenceA said:

Hi Pilgrim
Where is here?
I was in a similar situation last year and was able to import a Chambers Kit and went Chambers as they were more hands on than Kibler and had experience wih the export to Australia.
Kibler were open to export but had not done so.
No other supplier , including Dunlap, replied to my queries.

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Victoria for me.

I haven't heard back from Kibler, tried email and instagram. I'm probably more in need of a less hands on kit, I'm very novice when it comes to that type of thing. I do like the kibler mountain rifle but doesn't go into a big enough cal to be legal on even fallow let alone reds and sambar.

I'm not opposed to factory options at all either.

How did shipping end up being in terms of cost and as a comparison to the price of the gun?

I built a Lyman Great Plains Rifle and it was pretty easy. I made a bunch of mistakes and had to take extra time to fix them, but I guess that's how you learn. Mine is a .54 cal flintlock, I haven't shot it enough to get the sights zero'ed in, but I was hitting my target 10 out of 10 times at 25 yds the first time out and it was really fun. I think once I shoot it enough to smooth out the rifling and settle in on a hunting load I'll be ready to fine-tune the sights in and then it will be fully complete.

I've read on these forums that there is a lock upgrade for the GPR, I think it might require some additional inletting to make it work but so far mine has gone bang most of the time. I had some trouble until I flipped my flint around to the fresh side, but that is more my lack of knowledge in knapping flints or knowing how to orient them in the hammer vise. I don't know how much anyone considers a GPR to be good quality, I know I've seen some detractors, but for me it was a good first build. I've got an old CVA .45 cal Kentucky Pistol to put together next, I may make that one for my daughter if she has any interest in shooting BP. Good luck finding something that suits you.

Flintandsteel said:

Let’s face it gang. The reason there are not too many left hand guns and parts available, is that there were very few historically. Most left hand locks were for double barreled guns.
Being left handed was considered a curse a couple centuries ago.

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Well, there was a lot of backwards thinking going on back then. I think the real reason there are not to many options for leftys is, it's not a money maker for the kit companies. If you're selling 20 right handed kits for every one lefty, it doesn't make a lot of sense from a business standpoint to produce much in the way of left handed kits, locks, whole guns, etc.

I'm just glad there are those who have considered the left handed shooters like myself, and have at least offered some left handed products. I'll be honest had it not been for the ability to obtain a left handed muzzle loader, I may have never even given them a try.

GoodRabbitPilgrim said:

Victoria for me.

I haven't heard back from Kibler, tried email and instagram. I'm probably more in need of a less hands on kit, I'm very novice when it comes to that type of thing. I do like the kibler mountain rifle but doesn't go into a big enough cal to be legal on even fallow let alone reds and sambar.

I'm not opposed to factory options at all either.

How did shipping end up being in terms of cost and as a comparison to the price of the gun?

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There are basically no factory options.
What are you after as I simply have more than I need and I know of a few around here not getting use.
I really like my PH Musketoon. Light to carry and 58 cal. I have just about finished my York 50 cal. Thinking a Kibler or Chambers Fowler next.

Here are my scrawled estimates for kits:

LawrenceA said:

There are basically no factory options.
What are you after as I simply have more than I need and I know of a few around here not getting use.
I really like my PH Musketoon. Light to carry and 58 cal. I have just about finished my York 50 cal. Thinking a Kibler or Chambers Fowler next.

Here are my scrawled estimates for kits:

	York	AUD	Kibler	AUD
Lock	223​	338.55	200​	303.63
barrel	275​	341.56		-
stock & Bits	635​	788.70	850​	1,290.42
Patchbox	50​	62.10		-
xtra f wood	200​	248.41	225​	341.58
shipping est.	130​	161.47	200​	303.63
Tax	110.55	165.00	150.03	223.93
	1,623.55	2,105.79	1,625.03	2,463.19

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I spoke to a firearms importer who does guns that aren't brought in through normal lines e.g. Beretta, sako etc. And he said double the cost of your gun at a minimum and up to 200% the cost to get it here. I remember when I first spoke to him I was looking at a 275 rigby that was $1500 aud and he said it was going to cost about $3500 to get it here.

So that's an expense on top of the gun.

You see the odd pedersoli or pop up on used guns from time to time, but rarely in the calibres I'm after.

GoodRabbitPilgrim said:

I spoke to a firearms importer who does guns that aren't brought in through normal lines e.g. Beretta, sako etc. And he said double the cost of your gun at a minimum and up to 200% the cost to get it here. I remember when I first spoke to him I was looking at a 275 rigby that was $1500 aud and he said it was going to cost about $3500 to get it here.

So that's an expense on top of the gun.

You see the odd pedersoli or pop up on used guns from time to time, but rarely in the calibres I'm after.

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So what are you after?

LawrenceA said:

So what are you after?

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I wasn't saying that excludes them I was just stating it as matter of fact.

I don't know what I want really, just a reliable flinter for deer hunting. Either a long rifle or a fowler I can also use on birds, foxes and rabbits.

So a flinter of minimum 50 cal???

GoodRabbitPilgrim said:

What about Sitting fox muzzleloaders?

The more I think about it there I think a fowler/trade gun might be the way to go. I have enough rifled guns, something to shoot rabbits and deer would be great.

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I had excellent service from Sitting Fox. Parts are as good as I’ve bought from Track.
Keibler is the top of the pyramid. But the other companies will give you a good product and good service.
keibler stand as the ‘easiest’. The other kits will represent one to two hundred hours

LawrenceA said:

So a flinter of minimum 50 cal???

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Yeah, that's scraping the bottom of legality here for deer. I could go a 45 but the 130gr round ball (which isn't legal anyway) is getting pretty light for a big sambar or red stag.

Other than Pedersoli, Traditions, and Lyman, there are few factory options. The other options are the semi-custom guns from Caywood, Chambers, TVM, Clay Smith, and others who may have some assembled guns built on speculation. Look at the ads in magazines such as "Muzzleloader" or "Muzzleblasts". @GoodRabbitPilgrim, since you are in Australia, there may be limited recourse to importing a used rifle from the classifieds. Due to import regulations, a custom or even a kit gun may be out of the question.

Be sure and inquire about what the in stock status is. Some firms might have a six month exit on certain parts. Pecatonica abd log Canin generally good inventories.
But Alastair ask especially this day and age.

GoodRabbitPilgrim said:

I spoke to a firearms importer who does guns that aren't brought in through normal lines e.g. Beretta, sako etc. And he said double the cost of your gun at a minimum and up to 200% the cost to get it here. I remember when I first spoke to him I was looking at a 275 rigby that was $1500 aud and he said it was going to cost about $3500 to get it here.

So that's an expense on top of the gun.

You see the odd pedersoli or pop up on used guns from time to time, but rarely in the calibres I'm after.

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I do feel sympathy for the good folks in Australia who enjoy shooting black powder, muzzle loading firearms. Aussies are among my favorite friends, to be sure. But you are living in a more restricted nation than many others, especially where firearms are considered.
I do not know all of your regulations for ML's, but am gradually learning a few of them.
A few years back, I considered re-locating to your wonderful nation, but was put off by the very restrictive firearms rules/regulations.
I do wish you the best in creating your ML, and hope that you are able to build something to your liking. If I can help in any way, please let me know.

Craig "Wildcat" Wilcox said:

I do feel sympathy for the good folks in Australia who enjoy shooting black powder, muzzle loading firearms. Aussies are among my favorite friends, to be sure. But you are living in a more restricted nation than many others, especially where firearms are considered.
I do not know all of your regulations for ML's, but am gradually learning a few of them.
A few years back, I considered re-locating to your wonderful nation, but was put off by the very restrictive firearms rules/regulations.
I do wish you the best in creating your ML, and hope that you are able to build something to your liking. If I can help in any way, please let me know.

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It's really not that bad, people for whatever reason seem to have an exaggerated view on gun laws here. A regular citizen can't own an automatic rifle true enough but Most other things we can have. Guns have to be stored locked and unloaded, and self defence isn't a genuine reason to own a gun here. In terms of hunting, my state has over 20 million acres of public land hunting available to take my various guns for a walk too which is good too. I do enjoy it here but if I lived another life without a wife or kids I doubt I'd be where I am, NZ is an amazing country, with great people, good gun laws and great hunting.

The downside to australia is the public perception towards guns because we've moved toward such a highly urbanised country with 95% of the population living along the coastline and most in larger cities.

The high cost in importing a gun is not because it's a gun, everything is like that here. Just the other day I was looking at a John Deere electric ride on tractor for my kids, in usa it was $500, here it was $1200.

As I've already digressed I may as well say USA is a country I've always wanted to visit. I'd like to combine a work/hunting trip someday. I'm an agronomist so I'm interested in the farming over there but also would love the chance to chase a nice whitetail buck or something like that. Someday!

Versanaut said:

After watching and loading for me for nearly a year at competitions, my 9 y/o finally asked for his own muzzleloader. Being only 9 AND Left handed, I searched high and low for something. Ended up building a Sitting Fox Kit. This was my first build type project of ANY nature since model airplanes as a kid. It was WAY more advanced than I had expected. Rod hole was drilled, Barrel channel was cut. Lock was 75% inlet. But that was it. all metal parts had their sprue or cast marks, Plate, tang, and trigger needed inletting, etc etc. I learned a LOT doing this. I was able to finish the rifle with basic tools and some makeshift jigs. Aaaaand then my son grew RIGHT out of it! hahaha.

Been a few year now. Been thinking about putting a fowler together myself. Couple projects ahead of that idea though!

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I'm a lefty and got one of the old Lyman .54 GPR's in LH percussion. But grew up with RH, so can use either comfortably.

I built a Jim Chambers Mark Silver Colonial Virginia flintlock rifle and it is an excellent kit to work with. The parts are great quality. It does take some work to fit some of the parts, but that is what I think you buy a kit for in the first place, to put your own finishing touch on it. My rifle has a 62 cal. Rice barrel on it and it has shot groups under two inches at 100 yards if I hold my jaw just right. Highly recommend the Chambers kits.

I would like to have a Chambers .62 VA. rifle. I have the same gun in a .54., and it is a bit heavy and the LOP is a shade too long. The LOP is my major complaint with the mostly finished kits. They are all long for me. On a less finished kit you can adjust the pull more easily.