Short barrel muzzleloaders and accuracy.

Ironoxide · Jul 6, 2021

Is there anyone here that owns a short barrel muzzleloader(24 in or less) and can shoot it accurately?

There are a lot of discussions online about ML barrel length and projectile speed, ability not to waste powder, long barrels offering longer distance between sights (or ability to install rear sight further from shooter's eye) etc.

However, I suspect it is not the whole picture. I have few ML rifles and smoothbores in various calibers. Some have long and very long barrels.

In general I can shoot all my MLs with long barrels fairly well(for me) . A good example is my 38 cal 44 inch barrel squirrel gun (Pedersoli plainsman). Shooting it seated at a bench(no wiping between shots) I get holes touching if I do my part.

Shooting my 54 cal long barreled Pedersoli "Pennsylvania" flinter at the bench on a good day I can stay in the (8in)black at 100m (sure this is not national championship winning shooting, but I'm quite happy with it).

However, shooting MLs with 24 inch and shorter barrels I can just about get it on (20x20in)paper at 100m. Shooting another ML with barrel slightly less than half the length - a .58 cal 11inch barrel howdah I get same results, but at half the distance! (meaning I can just get it on paper at 50m). Same with my 7 inch barrel 45 cal revolver. Then halving barrel length again (from 7 to 3.5inch) with my little "snub nose" 45 cal revolver I can only get it on paper at 25m.

I would very much like to find out if this is typical and if there is anyone who does shoot short barrel muzzleloaders accurately. I define "accuracy" as equal to whatever your results are when shooting 28inch+ long barreled rifles.

If that's you, do you have any special advice for shooting technique for short barrel rifles?

excess650 · Jul 6, 2021

With a shorter barrel you are going to have a shorter sight radius, and it may be more difficult to get a good sight picture with the shorter barrels as you get older (fuzzy sights front and rear).

I HAD a 24" TC Grey Hawk with both .50 and .54 barrels, both 48" twist. The .54 was a fine roundball shooter, but the .50 not so much. The smaller bore did shoot like a laser with modern, unmentionable here, projectiles.

A Merit optical device for your shooting glasses will allow you to adjust the iris that you look through and extend your "in focus" vision. Likewise, a tang mounted peep sight will extend your sight radius, and one with changeable apertures (or iris) is a huge improvement.

Loyalist Dave · Jul 6, 2021

As mentioned you will have a shorter sight radius. but a lot of companies and even builders use the same sights whether the barrel is 28+ inches long or 24 inches or less. When that front sight post gets closer the top edge appears wider to the human eye, and thus the shooter must not only get a good sight picture, but adds to that task centering the front sight on the target bull. A thinner front sight post may remedy this.

You may also find that you need to up the main charge, if the barrel is really short and the caliber is large, OR some folks find better results switching to 3Fg if not already using it, when they have a short barrel.

LD

Ironoxide · Jul 6, 2021

That is a good point about narrower front sight. I have to try that.

NorthFork · Jul 6, 2021

Yes. currently 2. The shorter of the 2 is only 22" long. It also happens to be arguably my most accurate rifle. The other is 24". It shoots decent groups. I don't think the barrel length is it's limiting factor though. Barrel length/sight radius is NOT the only factor to consider. Humane and ethical 100 yard kills are easy for the 22" long rifle. Conversely I own a rifle with a 44" barrel and I'm lucky to be 'minute of deer' at 50-60 yards.

dave951 · Jul 6, 2021

It's probably you if your load is right. My PH musketoon will do just under 2in at 100yd.

That said, as mentioned in an earlier post, sight radius and type of sights play a part.

hanshi · Jul 6, 2021

I've owned two shorties, both right at 24" or a tad over. The .50 was a Traditions DeerHunter that served me well for over 20 years. The one I have currently is a .45 built by a talented builder who, sadly, retired several years ago. With the little .45 and that short barrel I've managed to get first place in a postal shoot or two and a few 2nd & 3rd place. Then there's my .50 pistol 9" that's scored at least one first place. The short barrels are just a accurate as any longer one but have the short sight radius.

Rudyard · Jul 6, 2021

Preffering brls no longer than 33" & mostly 26" to 28 " for handiness and weight considerations .But much depends on the shooter & his loads & practice, but as a rule short rifles would tend to be less accurate or less easy to sight at least. Or so I've concluded after 60 years but i'me still open to learning more.
Rudyard

SOLANCO · Jul 6, 2021

Ironoxide said:
Is there anyone here that owns a short barrel muzzleloader(24 in or less) and can shoot it accurately?

There are a lot of discussions online about ML barrel length and projectile speed, ability not to waste powder, long barrels offering longer distance between sights (or ability to install rear sight further from shooter's eye) etc.

However, I suspect it is not the whole picture. I have few ML rifles and smoothbores in various calibers. Some have long and very long barrels.

In general I can shoot all my MLs with long barrels fairly well(for me) . A good example is my 38 cal 44 inch barrel squirrel gun (Pedersoli plainsman). Shooting it seated at a bench(no wiping between shots) I get holes touching if I do my part.

Shooting my 54 cal long barreled Pedersoli "Pennsylvania" flinter at the bench on a good day I can stay in the (8in)black at 100m (sure this is not national championship winning shooting, but I'm quite happy with it).

However, shooting MLs with 24 inch and shorter barrels I can just about get it on (20x20in)paper at 100m. Shooting another ML with barrel slightly less than half the length - a .58 cal 11inch barrel howdah I get same results, but at half the distance! (meaning I can just get it on paper at 50m). Same with my 7 inch barrel 45 cal revolver. Then halving barrel length again (from 7 to 3.5inch) with my little "snub nose" 45 cal revolver I can only get it on paper at 25m.

I would very much like to find out if this is typical and if there is anyone who does shoot short barrel muzzleloaders accurately. I define "accuracy" as equal to whatever your results are when shooting 28inch+ long barreled rifles.

If that's you, do you have any special advice for shooting technique for short barrel rifles?

There is a reason all firearms are not handguns.

Within reason, a longer barrel makes for a more accurate shooter.

French Colonial · Jul 6, 2021

My Jaeger is 28" long so it doesn't fit your criteria, However.

It is a Getz barrel with round bottom rifling and a coned muzzle and is very accurate, won me lots of prizes in the past, its limitation is now the old eyes of its owner.

I do not think the length of the barrel matters as much as the quality of the barrel and the builder, yes the distance between the sights makes some difference along with properly set up sights (width of the front blade and rear gap) but ......this is going to get me in trouble.........with a good quality gun, most of the time the limiting factor is the loose nut behind the butt.

Musketeer · Jul 6, 2021

Here's a super short rifle. He shoots at 25m and mentions the possibility of shooting out to 50m with the right load and better sights.

bubba.50 · Jul 6, 2021

Other than the aforementioned shorter sight radius l’ve never noticed any difference in accuracy with longer or shorter barrels. My gripe with short baarrels is the infernal increase in muzzle-blast/noise.

nkbj · Jul 6, 2021

Looking forwards to trying out a .50 minie in a Deerhunter with 24" barrel.

mushka · Jul 6, 2021

Consider that some shooters can hit targets out at a hundred yards or better with a cap and ball revolver, why not with a more stable short barreled long gun. Probably just need to learn to shoot more skillfully. Longer barrel gives a longer sighting plane but it's not absolutely necessary. Practice, practice, practice.

Ironoxide · Jul 7, 2021

NorthFork said:
Yes. currently 2. The shorter of the 2 is only 22" long. It also happens to be arguably my most accurate rifle. The other is 24". It shoots decent groups. I don't think the barrel length is it's limiting factor though. Barrel length/sight radius is NOT the only factor to consider. Humane and ethical 100 yard kills are easy for the 22" long rifle. Conversely I own a rifle with a 44" barrel and I'm lucky to be 'minute of deer' at 50-60 yards.

Interesting. I wonder if short rifles require a slightly different technique.

All long rifles I have that I shoot accurately I tend to not pull into the shoulder (rest them there), holding the forend I usually try to exert smallest force possible etc.

However, with my short 24 inch rifle the same technique sprays the target like a smoothbore. I found it can shoot accurate if I hold it into the shoulder with some force (not excessive) and definitely requires tight grip on the forend.

All of you good shooter's (hanshi et al) do you have to actively "control recoil" or does it just happens for you regardless of barrel length?

Rawhide67 · Jul 7, 2021

I have a TC White Mtn Carbine that shoots Maxi's well. And a shorter TC called the Buckeye Carbine, I think that's 18" barrel. Also shoots maxi"s well A modified cva bobcat barrel cut to 18" and fitted in to a Kentucky stock for my son when he was little is a round all machine. A lot of it is playing with loads to find what the gun likes.

brewer12345 · Jul 7, 2021

I shot the last two deer standing unsupported with a 54 Grey Hawk with a 24" barrel, at 55 and 60 yards. No muss no fuss and the shorter barrel is plenty accurate to the limit of my vision (things start falling apart beyond 75 yards, likely my fault). Shorter sight radius does make things harder, so a sight upgrade can be a great help. For my purposes, minute of deer to 75 yards is fine although I plan to hunt with my Zouave this year.

Woody Morgan · Jul 8, 2021

Traditions Deerhunter at 50yds with a 250gr REAL, felt OP wad with olive oil and 50 grains of 3f OE. Three rounds. I hadn't adjusted the sights for windage yet.

wm

Scota@4570 · Jul 8, 2021

Barrel length does not determine accuracy potential. Modern bench rest guys use short fat barrels. I have "unlimited" ML match pistols that cut one hole at 25 yards when shot off a bench. On the other hand I had had 36" ML rifle barrel that shot no better than 3" at 50 yards with any load off the bench. It had very deep, narrow, round bottom grooves. In that case gas leaked past the patch in the grooves. Certain factors are common to accurate barrels, smooth finish, consistent twist (or gain), consistent bore size (or choked), fairly straight, a good crown, and reasonable rifling dimensions.

SOLANCO · Jul 8, 2021

Scota@4570 said:
Barrel length does not determine accuracy potential. Modern bench rest guys use short fat barrels. I have "unlimited" ML match pistols that cut one hole at 25 yards when shot off a bench. On the other hand I had had 36" ML rifle barrel that shot no better than 3" at 50 yards with any load off the bench. It had very deep, narrow, round bottom grooves. In that case gas leaked past the patch in the grooves. Certain factors are common to accurate barrels, smooth finish, consistent twist (or gain), consistent bore size (or choked), fairly straight, a good crown, and reasonable rifling dimensions.

I posted this earlier on the thread:
" Within reason, a longer barrel makes for a more accurate shooter. "
I said "shooter" on purpose. I did not say rifle or pistol or firearm. Although with my vision the barrel should be long enough to touch the ten ring LOL.

Short barrel muzzleloaders and accuracy.

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