Second barrel load movement...

With a double-barrel ML, whether SxS or O/U, I keep seeing reports that the second load may move when the first is fired. I've fired my 20b on dove shoots where one barrel might be shot repeatedly and then eventually the other. Circumstantially, either barrel might be fired a few times in a row while the other is "resting", then the second barrel fired. I've never had anything peculiar happen. Now I am working with a 12b double. Everything loads tightly. I am going to shoot and check the other barrel and reverse the order a few dozen times to be confident. Has anyone actually had the second charge move due to firing the other barrel?

Sparkitoff said:

With a double-barrel ML, whether SxS or O/U, I keep seeing reports that the second load may move when the first is fired. I've fired my 20b on dove shoots where one barrel might be shot repeatedly and then eventually the other. Circumstantially, either barrel might be fired a few times in a row while the other is "resting", then the second barrel fired. I've never had anything peculiar happen. Now I am working with a 12b double. Everything loads tightly. I am going to shoot and check the other barrel and reverse the order a few dozen times to be confident. Has anyone actually had the second charge move due to firing the other barrel?

Click to expand...

Never had it happen to the extent everything is loose. I have had it that a top card has moved off the shot enough I can hear it but it is a tiny fraction of an inch.
I have recently been shooting a 10g double with just balls of brown paper for wads. Even they don't particularly move off the powder.
Personally, I think it's just another folk lore based on fear with no creditable evidence of a danger. You know like using 4f as a main charge is dangerous

Britsmoothy said:

Personally, I think it's just another folk lore based on fear with no creditable evidence of a danger. You know like using 4f as a main charge is dangerous

Click to expand...

Actually, a lot of BP wife tales, I've found applied once upon a time..., but don't now.

For example, the round ball "skipping over" rifling that is as fast as 1:48 or faster when using a heavy charge. Today...naw BUT..., back in the day when the grooves of the rifling were not the same width as the lands..., when they were as wide as a thick saw blade because that's what the gunsmith used to make the "cutter" when rifling the barrel... that was probably true.

Moving off of the charge? Good quality fiber wads seated firmly in a good quality steel barrel that hasn't worn from corrosion. Doubtful. BUT..., talk about a barrel from the 19th century..., a thin barrel further thinned by poor care, and some sort of slipshod, makeshift wad(s) or over-cards.... could be bad

Use a LOT of 4Fg in the same thin walled poorly maintained barrel above...., could be bad

Don't blow down the barrel..., after firing..., OK so this is silly as a warning (imho) for a person shooting alone and the gun went BOOM. Now IF you were at a shooting match with people shooting at multiple positions and a lot of smoke..., using a light target load, Yeah in the excitement and such you might not realize that your flinter or caplock only clatched or popped.....,

Beer is better for you than water. OK so THAT ONE is absolutely true

No LOL, actually when wells were not deep but ground water type..., the bacteria from the barn floor, or the freshly manured field, or your outhouse or dung heap was likely seeping into the water, so yeah, the small beer you were likely drinking was a safe water source with some B Vitamins thrown in. Low alcohol too.

LD

Sparkitoff said:

With a double-barrel ML, whether SxS or O/U, I keep seeing reports that the second load may move when the first is fired. I've fired my 20b on dove shoots where one barrel might be shot repeatedly and then eventually the other. Circumstantially, either barrel might be fired a few times in a row while the other is "resting", then the second barrel fired. I've never had anything peculiar happen. Now I am working with a 12b double. Everything loads tightly. I am going to shoot and check the other barrel and reverse the order a few dozen times to be confident. Has anyone actually had the second charge move due to firing the other barrel?

Click to expand...

This may only happen on the first load with loose wad s in a clean barrel . I never swab a shotgun barrel I prefer a coked barrel and seating the wads are a problem a bit of spittle in the bore will help . It is best to shoot the right barrel first then the left the next shot so they both are then coked
Feltwad

If it has happened in my 10ga Navy Arms I have never noticed. I always shoot right barrel then left barrel and reload. Shoots great!

.....or you could pull both triggers at the same time and leave no doubts.

I had it happen once in all the years I've shot BP doubles. It is not the problem many would have you believe. Because of the different inertias of various components due to the different weights, it doesn't create an obstruction with a shot load. The heavier shot may move forward a little during recoil when the opposite barrel is fired, pushing the overshot card up the bore a bit. That means the shot is now in a space larger than it needs, and it spreads out on the bottom of the bore when it's horizontal, leaving a space above it through which all the pressure escapes if that barrel is fired. It makes a weird hollow sound, FOOP, and the recoil is almost absent.

This was very well described by Thomas Page in his book The Art of Shooting Flying, 1767:

" ...if your gun is clean, and the wad thrust but lightly down, that in walking the shot will be apt to get loose: and if you discharge the piece in that state, it will seem, by the small resistance it makes as if there were no shot in it:"

It does not create a dangerous situation whether the shot is "loose" from walking or from the recoil of firing the other barrel.

Spence

From what I've heard, this happened more in the day when muzzleloading doubles were used more for waterfowling: apparently it happened more with larger charges of shot. VM Starr told of it happening to him once when he was hunting, he said when he pointed the muzzle down shot dribbled out of the left barrel.

I think the wads used also played a role. Starr and others who mentioned this were typically using just a couple of card wads instead of trying to duplicate the wad column of a shotshell. Feltwad's mention of it happening with clean barrels got me to wondering, so I took my old Belgian double out this morning to see what would happen. Starting with clean barrels, after 3 shots from the right barrel the wads had moved enough in the left barrel that I could hear shot rolling around. (This normally isn't an issue for me, as I miss fast enough that both barrels are soon fouled.)

I have seen this happen "occasionally" not regularly. The key word in the original statement is that it "may" occur.

The charge moving is a byproduct of inertia. If you are only shooting 3/4 oz shot loads, you don't have much recoil, or inertia. If you are shooting strong 1 5/8 oz loads, you are going to have more recoil, and more inertia. If you are shooting 3/4 oz loads with a double charge of powder, you might have a lot of recoil, but not much inertia. If you have a fouled bore, you are going to have more friction to stop it. If you have more, or a firmer overshot wad, it is going to have more friction to stop it.

I've had my charge move after a couple shots. For duck hunting, you definitely want to send the rod down the other tube when you load to double check. I often forget to no harm. I make it a point to pull the second trigger first when I feel like it.

Now I know, when loading one barrel take a second to make sure the shot in the second barrel is still secure and not loose.

When I first got my Pedersoli twin 58 rifle I was concerned as well.
My first tested loading did indeed allow a small amount of creep on the second barrel.
I went up one patch thickness size and had no additional issues.
It is prudent to check - it is possible...but tightly loaded - improbable.

I've had the overshot card on my Pedersoli 20 bore move slightly after the right barrel was fired (2 3/4 dram and 1 ounce 6 shot, on pigeons and pheasants). Initially, I fixed it by using two overshot cards on the left barrel. Then I switched to 19 bore cards, and it stopped. I consider this to be in agreement with what Britsmoothy and Feltwad said.

I hunt with Pedersoli SxS's. Especially in the duck blind I use the unfired barrel as a handy place to put the ram rod as I reload the fired barrel. Always give it a couple of taps just to be sure there was no load shift in the unfired barrel, and I have never found one. I use Circlefly overshot cards.

THBailey said:

I hunt with Pedersoli SxS's. Especially in the duck blind I use the unfired barrel as a handy place to put the ram rod as I reload the fired barrel. Always give it a couple of taps just to be sure there was no load shift in the unfired barrel, and I have never found one. I use Circlefly overshot cards.

Click to expand...

That's a great idea. As long as your second duck doesn't get skewered by a wood rod!

I hope folks take the cap of the unfired barrel before reloading. I take the cap of the unfired barrel and immediately pull the ram rod and place it into the loaded barrel that way I do not get 2 loads in the same barrel (bad JUJU).

Powder goes down the fired barrel and wad is fitted and pushed to the breech. Rod goes back in the non fired barrel as shot will get poured and over shot wad placed in the bore. The ramrod is then thumped on the wad in the unfired barrel before it is pulled out to ram the OP wad down onto the new loaded barrel.

Rod is replaced in the thimbles and then Both nipples get capped.