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Lyman GPR signature series first impressions

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smokingoodtimes

32 Cal.
Joined
Mar 13, 2013
Messages
52
Reaction score
59
Location
Wilton,WI
I’ve been wanting another muzzleloader particularly another smoothie. They are just so fun to play with. Deep down part of me still wanted another style Hawken rifle. A Hawken style gun is first muzzleloader I bought when I was 13. Long story short at the beginning of my summer that year I asked my dad about getting one and he said if you work all summer, don’t miss a day and waste your paychecks on manure he agreed. So worked all summer in the fields, never missed day and never spent a penny. Last day of work for the summer I cashed my last check and told dad I still wanted a muzzleloader. The next day he took me to Cabelas and we walked out with a Cabelas Hawken. So the Hawken has some sentimental value to me. So 21 years later I decided to hold off on another smoothie and started looking at Hawken guns.
I liked the looks of Pedersoli rocket mountain Hawken but didn’t like the fake browned barrel nor the 1400ish price tag. Then I came across the signature series and was curious. I then happened to be on totw to order some supplies and saw they had a used 54 cal tc Hawken, then saw they had a new signature series on hand in 54 cal for 850. So I ordered it.
sorry for all the extra info. On to the rifle!
Fit and finish: I would say really good as I would expect from a company like Pedersoli. The bluing is deep and looks really nice. I’d prefer a browned barrel but that’s just a personal preference. The wood is ok. Not bad just lacks character. For a rifle in this price range I would expect more character but again just my thoughts. I like that the barrel lugs are dove tailed to the barrel. I helped a friend build a GPR from kit and I remember they were soldered on. Totw had noted that the factory ramrod was a touch short for the bore so they supplied another one with the rifle that was a better fit.
Shooting: I always enjoyed how comfortable these guns are to shoot even with heavy charges. The stock shape and cheek piece makes handling the recoil a breeze. I haven’t been able to really test accuracy yet. I liked how this gun has a prb twist of 1 in 65 vs 1 in 48. Many have had great luck with prb in 1 in 48 but I haven’t. The dozen or so shots I did take where at 50 yards shooting off hand on a cold day with snow, rain and fog. All the shots fell in 2 1/2 to 3 inch group. These could easily be improved by changing powder charge or components and shooting from a knee or off sticks and im confident this rifle could easy shoot groups half that size. Only gripe I had was the barrel seems really tight. First few shots were with a .530 round ball and a .018 pillow ticking patch lubed with mink oil and on a clean barrel loaded stiff. I didn’t dare try loading a second without swabbing since I didn’t have my metal range rod. Using a .015 patch let me reload a second shot but almost put the ramrod through my hand to do it but it did go. I haven’t had a chance to try .010 patch’s yet but will next time I can shoot. The only .010 patch’s I have are the prelubed patch’s that never seem to have another lube in them.
Overall I really like the rifle. It’s been asked on this forum if it’s worth the price. I guess that depends. If your in the market for this style gun and can find a good deal on one where your only spending a couple hundred more than the standard model but a couple hundred less than MSRP I think it’s very worth it. It’s it worth it’s MSRP? I guess that depends on who’s looking at it.
 
I’ll try to get some when I get home. I tired to take a few this morning before I left for work but lighting and morning brain where not cooperating.
 
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not the greatest pictures but light was not going agree with me.
 
Thank you for that review and range report. Your pictures are fine... better than I can take, and no apologies are needed. I would like to see a close up of the snail and breech area, if you don't mind, and I would also like to see or know how long the tang is.

It looks as if they have straightened out that slight "perch belly" in the bottom line of the buttstock, between the triggerguard and the toe. This rifle looks much better without that.

I also have a question... Did your rifle come with a "primitive" fixed rear sight, in addition to the adjustable one mounted on the barrel?

One final thought is that at least some original Hawkens were blued rather than browned. A century and a half of aging has altered the colors of the originals we see.

You have a really nice rifle there, brother.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob
 
Thank you for that review and range report. Your pictures are fine... better than I can take, and no apologies are needed. I would like to see a close up of the snail and breech area, if you don't mind, and I would also like to see or know how long the tang is.

It looks as if they have straightened out that slight "perch belly" in the bottom line of the buttstock, between the triggerguard and the toe. This rifle looks much better without that.

I also have a question... Did your rifle come with a "primitive" fixed rear sight, in addition to the adjustable one mounted on the barrel?

One final thought is that at least some original Hawkens were blued rather than browned. A century and a half of aging has altered the colors of the originals we see.

You have a really nice rifle there, brother.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob
CAFEBA61-0EC3-4C00-BDAA-4F7B2C882BD3.jpeg
012947FB-AF31-4374-9E14-6A6F33B4EC29.jpeg
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Here you go. The adjustable one is what came on the rifle. I know it’s not period correct but but it’s pretty primitive to me (at least compared to my long range rifle) so I couldn’t really knock it.
I knew someof these guns were blued or charcoal blued but I’ve just been a fan of browned barrels for them beingmore maintenance free. Also going back to my first muzzleloader when I was 13 and forums like this didn’t exist yet I was always fighting rust. Mostly because I didn’t know how to properly clean muzzleloader yet. What a journey it’s been and I still don’t feel like I know enough!
 
Thanks for the extra pictures! That snail is much improved, as compared to the original GPR. Much more like the old-time St. Louis rifles.

The tang extends well down the wrist, to reinforce the wood. Again, this is more like the Hawkens of long ago. The originals also had a very long trigger plate. The two tang screws would pass completely through the wrist to engage the trigger plate, "sandwiching" the wood in between, to reinforce it. I can't tell from the photos if the Signature GPR is built that way or not, but the long tang is a good feature in any event.

Regarding the rear sight, J.D. Baird illustrated at least five different adjustable rear sights, some not radically different from yours, from original late-period Hawken or Gemmer rifles. This was in Fifteen Years in the Hawken Lode. No need to apologize for for that sight, especially if it works! I was asking because it was my understanding that the original Investarms GPRs came with an extra, fixed rear sight which the customer could install at his option.

I think this Signature Series GPR by Pedersoli shows some subtle but significant improvements over the Investarms version. To me, it looks like a good rifle for the money. It is not a perfect replica of an old-time St. Louis Hawken, but I believe it is closer than anything else I know of for less than $1,000. The Pedersoli Rocky Mountain rifles have nicer wood, at least in the maple versions, but the prices are higher, too. If you want a custom Hawken, replicating all those subtle details of the originals, you're looking at a price somewhere north of $2,000. I think Brant Selb is now asking close to $3K for his.

Thanks!

Notchy Bob
 
Thanks for the extra pictures! That snail is much improved, as compared to the original GPR. Much more like the old-time St. Louis rifles.

The tang extends well down the wrist, to reinforce the wood. Again, this is more like the Hawkens of long ago. The originals also had a very long trigger plate. The two tang screws would pass completely through the wrist to engage the trigger plate, "sandwiching" the wood in between, to reinforce it. I can't tell from the photos if the Signature GPR is built that way or not, but the long tang is a good feature in any event.

Regarding the rear sight, J.D. Baird illustrated at least five different adjustable rear sights, some not radically different from yours, from original late-period Hawken or Gemmer rifles. This was in Fifteen Years in the Hawken Lode. No need to apologize for for that sight, especially if it works! I was asking because it was my understanding that the original Investarms GPRs came with an extra, fixed rear sight which the customer could install at his option.

I think this Signature Series GPR by Pedersoli shows some subtle but significant improvements over the Investarms version. To me, it looks like a good rifle for the money. It is not a perfect replica of an old-time St. Louis Hawken, but I believe it is closer than anything else I know of for less than $1,000. The Pedersoli Rocky Mountain rifles have nicer wood, at least in the maple versions, but the prices are higher, too. If you want a custom Hawken, replicating all those subtle details of the originals, you're looking at a price somewhere north of $2,000. I think Brant Selb is now asking close to $3K for his.

Thanks!

Notchy Bob
That’s was my opinion on this rifle. The more I look at it, it’s basically a “plain version” of the Pedersoli Rocky Mountain hawken. Since so may are complaining about the quality of these rifles (the newer ones) I wonder if they are testing the waters to see if they should just switch the Pedersoli over investarms?
 
I like it myself. But I love the Hawken rifles period and have several of them. Id rather spend the 850 for this than buy a used hawken of some kind and take a chance with a barrel that might be in question from age and improper care. Even the used TC's and other brands are bringing around 500.
I’m kind of in the same boat. I started on a hawken and was kicking myself for not having one which I why I decided on this instead of another smoothbore. So between this and used TC I decided on the signature series since with a used gun you don’t totally know what your going to get, not that you do with a new rifle either but I really wanted the slower twist for PRB and the TC had the 1/48 twist which I personally never had the best of luck with. I know you can get drop in GM barrels for TCs been then your at the same price as a new signature series.
 
I just finished building my second Lyman GPR. I built one years ago … about when they first appeared. I love them. As to the sight; you can look at Dixie and find a Hawken sight cast from an original. It is not very different from yours. Enjoy! Polecat added: The one thing I do not like about my GPR is the snail. It looks like a kid's toy. My 2 1/2 cents worth
 
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Just thought I share a little more I’ve learned about the rifle. Last range trip I tried some .010 patches and accuracy wasn’t what I was hoping for and the patches didn’t hold up well either from the ones I recovered. I went back to .015 patches lubed in olive oil with a .530 rb and 90 grains for 2f gave me some great groups. I had 4 inch sticker targets on a 3 x 6 advertising sign for my group testing settled on this load. According to my range finder it was 53.5 yards. Down side is I have to swab between shots or it’s a PITA getting the next one down. Also the breech plug has some sharp edges. If I run a patch down a couple times it almost punches a perfect hole in the patch. Should add in the target that it’s a three shot group and the third shot busted through the target but didn’t take the plastic with it
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I'm not sure what to make of that hole in your cleaning patch. If you can find somebody who has a bore scope, it might be worth taking a look down there.

That's mighty good shooting, though!

Notchy Bob
 
Does the lock use a coil or a flat spring?
Track of the Wolf has a large number of excellent photographs of this rifle on their website, including a view of the lock, off the gun, with the innards exposed. I see flat springs, both mainspring and sear, and the mainspring connects with the tumbler via a swivel, to reduce friction. This has the appearance of a very nice lock.

The more I learn about this rifle, the more I am impressed. It appears this Signature series incorporates quite a few feature upgrades from the standard Investarms GPR, at least in the hardware. The wood is not particularly impressive, but for less than $1k, it's starting to look like a lot of gun for the money.

I find it hard to believe that Lyman has not put more effort into marketing this rifle, with emphasis on the upgrades. We, meaning all of us potential consumers, are having to dig for information. Lyman ought to know that things like a long tang or flat springs can be significant to a large portion of their customer base.

It is still not a perfect replica of any original Hawken, but it is a lot closer than anything in this price range.

It would be great if they would also consider a few changes in the Lyman Plains Pistol. I have one. The grip is badly in need of revision, from the standpoints of ergonomics as well as authenticity, and the snail ought to be revised to a more historically correct and aesthetically pleasing design. It wouldn't hurt to put a spur on the trigger guard, either, which I believe was sometimes seen on the originals.

Just my thoughts on the topic, respectfully submitted.

Best regards
 
I’ve been wanting another muzzleloader particularly another smoothie. They are just so fun to play with. Deep down part of me still wanted another style Hawken rifle. A Hawken style gun is first muzzleloader I bought when I was 13. Long story short at the beginning of my summer that year I asked my dad about getting one and he said if you work all summer, don’t miss a day and waste your paychecks on manure he agreed. So worked all summer in the fields, never missed day and never spent a penny. Last day of work for the summer I cashed my last check and told dad I still wanted a muzzleloader. The next day he took me to Cabelas and we walked out with a Cabelas Hawken. So the Hawken has some sentimental value to me. So 21 years later I decided to hold off on another smoothie and started looking at Hawken guns.
I liked the looks of Pedersoli rocket mountain Hawken but didn’t like the fake browned barrel nor the 1400ish price tag. Then I came across the signature series and was curious. I then happened to be on totw to order some supplies and saw they had a used 54 cal tc Hawken, then saw they had a new signature series on hand in 54 cal for 850. So I ordered it.
sorry for all the extra info. On to the rifle!
Fit and finish: I would say really good as I would expect from a company like Pedersoli. The bluing is deep and looks really nice. I’d prefer a browned barrel but that’s just a personal preference. The wood is ok. Not bad just lacks character. For a rifle in this price range I would expect more character but again just my thoughts. I like that the barrel lugs are dove tailed to the barrel. I helped a friend build a GPR from kit and I remember they were soldered on. Totw had noted that the factory ramrod was a touch short for the bore so they supplied another one with the rifle that was a better fit.
Shooting: I always enjoyed how comfortable these guns are to shoot even with heavy charges. The stock shape and cheek piece makes handling the recoil a breeze. I haven’t been able to really test accuracy yet. I liked how this gun has a prb twist of 1 in 65 vs 1 in 48. Many have had great luck with prb in 1 in 48 but I haven’t. The dozen or so shots I did take where at 50 yards shooting off hand on a cold day with snow, rain and fog. All the shots fell in 2 1/2 to 3 inch group. These could easily be improved by changing powder charge or components and shooting from a knee or off sticks and im confident this rifle could easy shoot groups half that size. Only gripe I had was the barrel seems really tight. First few shots were with a .530 round ball and a .018 pillow ticking patch lubed with mink oil and on a clean barrel loaded stiff. I didn’t dare try loading a second without swabbing since I didn’t have my metal range rod. Using a .015 patch let me reload a second shot but almost put the ramrod through my hand to do it but it did go. I haven’t had a chance to try .010 patch’s yet but will next time I can shoot. The only .010 patch’s I have are the prelubed patch’s that never seem to have another lube in them.
Overall I really like the rifle. It’s been asked on this forum if it’s worth the price. I guess that depends. If your in the market for this style gun and can find a good deal on one where your only spending a couple hundred more than the standard model but a couple hundred less than MSRP I think it’s very worth it. It’s it worth it’s MSRP? I guess that depends on who’s looking at it.
You're gonna love the pre-lubed .10s. that's what made the difference for me with Pedersoli Kentucky LR, Flinter in .45. I still swab with a wet patch then dry patch between shots. It's an extra step but you just can't argue with the consistency of the shot groups at any range.
A Lyman GPR .54 percussion is way way up on my wish list of guns. I like the decidedly utilitarian look of the gun. It looks like it was built to work everyday, all day and I just never read anything bad about that gun. At that price point it's a winner for me every time.
 
Interesting, but too bad they do not make the .50 caliber with the slow twist / PRB barrel as well. That is the one thing that really pisses me off about Pedersoli .... all the 1:48 twist barrels. I'd buy some of their rifles if they would just make them with slow twists.
 
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