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What a better twist rate for a 54 caliber
- Thread starter gmassi1
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Greg Blackburn
40 Cal.
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Do you want to shoot patched round ball or bullet?
You might want to post this in the General Muzzleloading section or somewhere other than the classified ads, like in the Flintlock or Percussion gun forums (depending on what you're interested in). More people might see it.
I've have and have had numerous .54's ranging from 1-56 to 1-70 twist barrels and rather shallow grooves to very deep round-bottom grooves (also a consideration depending on the projectile you're choosing). All worked for me, though the loads varied to get the top results.
I've have and have had numerous .54's ranging from 1-56 to 1-70 twist barrels and rather shallow grooves to very deep round-bottom grooves (also a consideration depending on the projectile you're choosing). All worked for me, though the loads varied to get the top results.
longcruise
70 Cal.
If you will shoot balls probably the 1:66. If conicals then 1:48.
Lacking any more details, I assume those are your only options??
rich pierce
70 Cal.
Faster twist will shoot round ball well with less powder and velocity. Slower twist will need more velocity and therefore powder to shoot round ball well. You’ll need 70 grains on up for 1 in 66.
For roundball I would suggest 1-56 to 1-60 at most. I had a 54 in 1-66 and it shot great, but it didn’t start to get there until you were loading north of 100 grains of powder. Was still showing signs of improvement up to 135 grains, but my crowns and fillings were starting to loosen. Sold it. For reference have settled on 1-60 in 58 caliber. I have a number of 54 calibers with 1-48 and they all shoot roundballs very well. If I were buying a 54 caliber it would likely be a 1-56. Just my opinion.
Griz44Mag
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Another factor in all this is rifling depth. This is a major factor if you plan on shooting conicals.
Normally a 1:48 would not be ideal for conical or roundball - but will produce good groups with either.
A really fast twist (1:32 or faster) is designed for longer conicals.
Agree rifling depth is a factor. Assumed (yes I know) we were talking about roundball depth cut rifling. Conical rifling depth is a different critter. Own and shoot both.
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The 1:48 is considered a compromise twist my friend. Can shoot either conical or round ball accurately with the right load workup.
The slower twist’s are what we would call a dedicated round ball twist. Used exclusively for shooting round ball.
As already mentioned, the groove depth plays a vital role as well ?
Depths of .03 or less are not idea for patched round ball. Increase’s the likely hood of stripping or blow by. Especially with higher charges. Depths of .05 or deeper are idea for patched RB.
Conical barrels with faster twists generally have shallow groove depth’s. That’s because a patch isn’t used to produce a spin of the projectile and is not needed to create a good gas seal. The skirting or outer grooves of the conical projectile achieves that desired effect my friend.
Lastly, the question would be.
Do you want to shoot round ball exclusively? ( slow twist I/e 1:52 or slower. )
Do you want to shoot conical’s exclusively? ( fast twist I/e 1:32 to ? )
Do you want to have the capability to shoot both conical and round ball? ( comprise twist I/e 1:48 )
Respectfully, Cowboy
The slower twist’s are what we would call a dedicated round ball twist. Used exclusively for shooting round ball.
As already mentioned, the groove depth plays a vital role as well ?
Depths of .03 or less are not idea for patched round ball. Increase’s the likely hood of stripping or blow by. Especially with higher charges. Depths of .05 or deeper are idea for patched RB.
Conical barrels with faster twists generally have shallow groove depth’s. That’s because a patch isn’t used to produce a spin of the projectile and is not needed to create a good gas seal. The skirting or outer grooves of the conical projectile achieves that desired effect my friend.
Lastly, the question would be.
Do you want to shoot round ball exclusively? ( slow twist I/e 1:52 or slower. )
Do you want to shoot conical’s exclusively? ( fast twist I/e 1:32 to ? )
Do you want to have the capability to shoot both conical and round ball? ( comprise twist I/e 1:48 )
Respectfully, Cowboy
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I had a Pedersoli Frontier and I have a Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken which both are 1-65 twist with a fairly shallow (not modern rifle shallow though) square bottom grooves. Both of these guns shoot patched roundball OR the big Hornady Great Plains 425 gr conical with great accuracy. It goes against all one would generally expect that a slow twist like that would effectively stabilize a big conical. I shot 90 grs of T7 2F for both projectiles. No keyholing even out to 100 yards with hollow base conicals. They did NOT like solid base conicals, however.
As I think back on all the different guns and barrel types I've owned over 20 years in the sport, I'd have to say that the Pedersoli barrels were by far the most forgiving and easiest load workup I've ever experienced.
Amazing that the Hawkens family figured this compromise twist out in their day with no internet. But it also seems that I have read that most Hawken customers were shooting roundballs. Guess they weren’t informed 1-48 was a compromise twist.... also hard to explain the one twist per barrel length used earlier in in time. With roundballs of all things. Just trying to understand.
I wonder if faster twists may have worked out OK with roundballs then because they also used lower powder charges and/or their powders weren't quite as "energetic"? Wasn't it common to use a charge in grains equal to the caliber? Most of us today are loading WAY more than that.
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I don’t know why the Hawken brother’s decided on using the 1:48 twist my friend ?
I’m not an expert. I’m only sharing my personal experiences coupled with the knowledge of other’s who’ve posted on their experiences.
I too always try to understand. Maybe we’ll learn something together?
Respectfully, Cowboy
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Interesting ?
Might be something to that ? Definitely something to ponder on.
Respectfully, Cowboy
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I would like to know where you got the information on the rifling twist original hawkin rifles had? I have read quite a lot about old rifles with interest in their specs. and this is news to me?
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Have read in a number of publications.
Have followed many discussions.
Original tooling from J&S Hawken shop exists and is set up for 1:48. Documented by the Missouri Historical Society.
Original Hawken rifle’s exist with the 1:48 twist.
Lastly, just google “ original Hawken rifle twist rate “ See what comes up my friend??
Not going to do the research for you my friend. It’s out there if you’re truly interested?
Respectfully, Cowboy
I heard they simply used the 1-48 twist because that is all they were set up for. Maybe it worked so well and most others were using slower twists so they decided to stick with it. Its is very commonly known that they used the 1-48 twist.
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48" twist works great.
And by the way, you don't have to have shallow rifling for long bullets. But whatever twist and rifling geometry you have, you have to feed it what it likes and some are picky eaters.
And by the way, you don't have to have shallow rifling for long bullets. But whatever twist and rifling geometry you have, you have to feed it what it likes and some are picky eaters.
The 1:48" twist is pretty much a universal choice. The 1:56" close second. The only .54 rifle I ever had was a fairly heavy (about 12 lbs) and had a 1:72" twist. With a prb it would not begin to group until charges were north of 100 gr. And, at that, it was very unpleasant to shoot. My advice, good ole stand-by, 1:48".
stink koat
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I think you meant to say .003 and .005, .05 is close to 1/16 or .060 deep.
