Real or Replica?

wendyp · Sep 14, 2020

Hello Experts - I have recently acquired this and would love to know if you think it is fake or real? What type if it is real? It is 15 inches long and weighs 7 pounds.
It obviously needs som

e work if it is real - is it worth getting restored? Thank so much!

rich pierce · Sep 14, 2020

Middle Eastern gun. Probably real.

russellshaffer · Sep 14, 2020

Are you sure about the 7 pounds? That is a lot for a pistol. It's a very interesting firearm.

wendyp · Sep 14, 2020

russellshaffer said:
Are you sure about the 7 pounds? That is a lot for a pistol. It's a very interesting firearm.

Yes - 112.7 ounces - very heavy.

wendyp · Sep 14, 2020

rich pierce said:
Middle Eastern gun. Probably real.

Any further info would be great - sounds like you know you stuff! Thanks

SDSmlf · Sep 14, 2020

Hi wendyp. Welcome to the forum.

The first thing I suggest doing is to make sure there is nothing in the barrel. I don’t see a ramrod in your photograph, so you will need something else about the diameter of a pencil and maybe 12” or so long. Anything will do, as long as it fits in the barrel. You will want to push it into the barrel and mark it with a Sharpie or piece of tape so you can see how far it went into the barrel. Once you have it marked, take it out of the barrel and lay it alongside the barrel. It should show that it was in the barrel about the length of the red arrow I put on your photograph. If it does, you know nothing is in the barrel. You need to do this to confirm that the gun is not loaded.

wendyp · Sep 14, 2020

SDSmlf said:
Hi wendyp. Welcome to the forum.

The first thing I suggest doing is to make sure there is nothing in the barrel. I don’t see a ramrod in your photograph, so you will need something else about the diameter of a pencil and maybe 12” or so long. Anything will do, as long as it fits in the barrel. You will want to push it into the barrel and mark it with a Sharpie or piece of tape so you can see how far it went into the barrel. Once you have it marked, take it out of the barrel and lay it alongside the barrel. It should show that it was in the barrel about the length of the red arrow I put on your photograph. If it does, you know nothing is in the barrel. You need to do this to confirm that the gun is not loaded. View attachment 43083

thank you - - just did as you suggested and it lined up perfectly with your arrow - not loaded!

SDSmlf · Sep 14, 2020

wendyp said:
thank you - - just did as you suggested and it lined up perfectly with your arrow - not loaded!

That’s great. Avoids the ‘I didn’t know it was loaded’ statement later on.

Are there any markings (letters, numbers, symbols) anywhere on the gun that you can see? Clear detailed photographs (maybe taken in natural light) of any markings may help identify origin of your gun, although as @rich pierce posted earlier, looks to be Middle Eastern. Could be an original antique or a more modern tourist trade item that came out of a place like the Khyber Pass.

SDSmlf · Sep 14, 2020

One other comment. DO NOT clean or polish any part of this gun until you know what you have and have specific instructions on how and what to do. An improper or overzealous cleaning can greatly devalue an antique gun.

RB POWELL · Sep 14, 2020

SDSmlf said:
One other comment. DO NOT clean or polish any part of this gun until you know what you have and have specific instructions on how and what to do. An improper or overzealous cleaning can greatly devalue an antique gun.

Exactly correct. Many antiques are ruined, or seriously devaluated by cleaning, or restoration. Leave as is.

Sam squanch · Sep 14, 2020

Tourist gun, never made to be fired. But they are getting collectible as well.

Sam squanch · Sep 14, 2020

Tourist gun...these were made to be sold as decorators to tourists in the Middle East and turkey. Some made from old valuable parts, most not.

SDSmlf · Sep 14, 2020

Sam squanch said:
Tourist gun, never made to be fired. But they are getting collectible as well.

Sam squanch said:
Tourist gun...these were made to be sold as decorators to tourists in the Middle East and turkey. Some made from old valuable parts, most not.

Could be, but what specifically tells us this is a tourist gun? I am not knowledgeable enough to know from the photographs presented so far.

Sam squanch · Sep 14, 2020

Lock is very crude, may not even spark. Side plate and buttcap very crude castings. If you could handle it, you may even find it has a weak mainspring, or none at all. But, some have old original barrels that are worth something. It just looks like a cartoon version of a flintlock pistol. Other guys on this forum will chime in eventually.

Canute Rex · Sep 14, 2020

Squanch is on to it. Look at the high "tail" on the cock. It would hit the frizzen before the flint. The frizzen itself it a bent piece of flat steel that doesn't fit the pan. The frizzen spring doesn't look functional. The lock is entirely decorative.

Dibbuk · Sep 15, 2020

Pan and frizzen look like bent sheet metal, and at least one modern wood screw on sideplate. Is there a touch hole in the barrel?

Posted before I saw Canutes' post

LawrenceA · Sep 15, 2020

Squanch is spot on.
Lock does not look functional at all.
Not sure the cock could hold anything.
Frizzen has no substance

Heelerau · Sep 15, 2020

Tourist gun, meant as a wall hanger.

rickystl · Sep 15, 2020

As mentioned here by others, it's a tourist item. Never made to fire (and please don't try). Decoration only. These were/are made for the tourist trade in various Middle Eastern locations: Afghanistan, Morocco, Turkey, etc. Many hundreds have been made. The heavy weight is likely due to the blunderbuss shaped barrel that is probably a thick casting. Here are a couple more similar examples. The show up in auctions and gun listings all the time.

Rick

tenngun · Sep 15, 2020

Sam squanch said:
Tourist gun, never made to be fired. But they are getting collectible as well.

Starting about 1870 there was a market for old fancy guns. There was a lot less info by gun historians on what to look for. And there were shops in Italy, French North Africa, Greece and Turkey, selling ‘old guns’. Some of these were works of art. Some were real guns reworked, some were assembled from old parts.
Military wheelocks were turned in to gentleman’s arms, with engraved barrels gold ivory and mother of pearl inlays.
By the 1920s, old guns were being made from scratch, and artificially aged.
It wasn’t just guns. The New York History museum bought an Etruscan statue that turned out to be about three years old.

Real or Replica?

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

32 Cal

Attachments

70 Cal.

36 Cal.

32 Cal

32 Cal

Cannon

32 Cal

Cannon

Cannon

50 Cal.

62 Cal.

62 Cal.

Cannon

62 Cal.

40 Cal.

32 Cal.

50 Cal.

45 Cal.

58 Cal.

Cannon

Similar threads

Join the conversation!

Join today and get all the highlights of this community direct to your inbox. It's FREE!