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Pyrodex

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twodollarpistol said:
Good morning Gents. Here I am with another question. As some of you may know, I have just recently started shooting my GPR after a rather long period and I got the bug again real bad. My question is, because real BP is so aggravating and expensive to acquire, and I am down to about a half pound, I am considering trying Pyrodex. I have never used it before so I need advice as to which grade to use. I understand that P grade is the equivalent to 3F which is what I now shoot and the R grade is 2F. Now, is it safe to use P in my .50 cal or do I need to use the R grade. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks and blessings TDP
Click to expand...
If you aren't a purist, pyrodex Works just fine, as long as you remember that it must be clean like all other muzzleloader powders. I used It some 25 years ago, and still do on occasion. I do like 777 better but that's probably just personal and it is more expensive. I just thought I could get more shots without cleaning than I could with Either black or pyrodex. That probably isn't a very high priority for many shooters. I'm generally shooting just for enjoyment, killed lots of paper, a few rocks and sometimes nothing.
Squint
 
Well this is a pretty good link for me too ... ;)

Till now sixty years I shoot only real BP but now it's difficult an very expansive to get it in France, the Pyrodex isn't allowed too but I'm living in a harbor an then I can get a bit of it ...
I have two cans of Pyrodex : one is Pyrodex RS and the other is Pyrodex Select. So one month ago I did try the RS in my Pennsylvania rifle but nothing, it doesn't works in a flinter, is it normal ? I really did like is writed on the can and, I had put 15gr of 4Fg before the Pyrodex (duplex 15gr of 4Fg under the Pyrodex RS) and 4Fg in the pan and .... pssshitt and pssshit again, misfire over misfire, so I stopped it, pulled off the bullet and shot this day with BP swiss N°3 (2Fg), no more with Pyrodex for the day but the swiss N°3 did woks good...

Something wrong with me for the first use of that stuff ?

I didn't try again since that day...

One explanation ? (with simple words please: I'm not really a good American reader :( )...
 
Erwan said:
Well this is a pretty good link for me too ... ;)

Till now sixty years I shoot only real BP but now it's difficult an very expansive to get it in France, the Pyrodex isn't allowed too but I'm living in a harbor an then I can get a bit of it ...
I have two cans of Pyrodex : one is Pyrodex RS and the other is Pyrodex Select. So one month ago I did try the RS in my Pennsylvania rifle but nothing, it doesn't works in a flinter, is it normal ? I really did like is writed on the can and, I had put 15gr of 4Fg before the Pyrodex (duplex 15gr of 4Fg under the Pyrodex RS) and 4Fg in the pan and .... pssshitt and pssshit again, misfire over misfire, so I stopped it, pulled off the bullet and shot this day with BP swiss N°3 (2Fg), no more with Pyrodex for the day but the swiss N°3 did woks good...

Something wrong with me for the first use of that stuff ?

I didn't try again since that day...

One explanation ? (with simple words please: I'm not really a good American reader :( )...
Click to expand...
Pyrodex will not work in a flintlock, unless you load maybe 10-20 grains of old-fashioned, real black gunpowder down the bore first, then follow with the Pyrodex for the main charge. This is what I've read on this forum; I have no personal experience. I think it is too much trouble to go to! Of course you would also have to put real black powder in the priming pan!
 
Erwan said:
Well this is a pretty good link for me too ... ;)

Till now sixty years I shoot only real BP but now it's difficult an very expansive to get it in France, the Pyrodex isn't allowed too but I'm living in a harbor an then I can get a bit of it ...
I have two cans of Pyrodex : one is Pyrodex RS and the other is Pyrodex Select. So one month ago I did try the RS in my Pennsylvania rifle but nothing, it doesn't works in a flinter, is it normal ? I really did like is writed on the can and, I had put 15gr of 4Fg before the Pyrodex (duplex 15gr of 4Fg under the Pyrodex RS) and 4Fg in the pan and .... pssshitt and pssshit again, misfire over misfire, so I stopped it, pulled off the bullet and shot this day with BP swiss N°3 (2Fg), no more with Pyrodex for the day but the swiss N°3 did woks good...

Something wrong with me for the first use of that stuff ?

I didn't try again since that day...

One explanation ? (with simple words please: I'm not really a good American reader :( )...
Click to expand...
Since you did use the "duplex" loading method of first putting 15 grains of 4F black powder into the barrel followed by the Pyrodex load, I am guessing the 15 grains of black powder wasn't enough to cover the vent hole inside the barrel. If the real black powder was high enough to reach the vent, it should have ignited and lit the Pyrodex.
That statement assumes you were not using Pyrodex to prime the pan. Pyrodex in the pan works very poorly. It is difficult for the sparks to ignite and rather than exploding like real black powder does, Pyrodex just burns, similar to what smokeless powder laying on a plate does.

The best plan is to always use real black powder for priming and for the main powder charge in a flintlock firearm.
 
That is excactly what I did:

15grains of real BP Swiss 4Fg under 40grains in volume of Pyrodex RS and 3grains of real BP 4Fg like my habit for this rifle in the pan (BP Swiss N°1 or French PNF4P) .
Next time I'll put more than 15 grains of 3Fg under the Pyrodex.
This use mentioned is writed on the can's label, this way is supposed to work with flintlocks but in fact it does not works.... that's right ?
If that can't works with a flintlock, l can use only it for percussion locks ...... too bad ... 😟

Thanks. ;)
 
Last edited:
Yes, by itself, in a flintlock, Pyrodex works poorly or not at all. With a real black powder load under the Pyrodex it is supposed to work but as you found, it isn't reliable.
In a percussion gun, Pyrodex usually works but even then, occasionally it will "hang fire" and have a delay between the time when the cap fires and the Pyrodex actually ignites. This delay isn't usually very long but it is very noticeable to the shooter. It is similar to a "slow fire" in a flintlock where the pan flashes and perhaps 1/2 to 1 second passes before the gun shoots.

Pyrodex isn't the only powder that does this delay trick in a percussion gun. All of the synthetic black powders occasionally do it.
 
Well, I have two pounds of 3Fg, one of 2Fg, a bit of 4Fg. The Pyrodex is only if I can't find any real BP (that become more and more frequent in France). So I'll let the Pyrodex for another time if If this time comes I really can't get any real black powder.

Now, to find black powder is more and more difficult and expensive but we still find some, for how long ...... not long I suppose ... 😟 😟

Have a nice day Zonie. ;)
 
Erwan said:
That is excactly what I did:

15grains of real BP Swiss 4Fg under 40grains in volume of Pyrodex RS and 3grains of real BP 4Fg like my habit for this rifle in the pan (BP Swiss N°1 or French PNF4P) .
Next time I'll put more than 15 grains of 3Fg under the Pyrodex.
This use mentioned is writed on the can's label, this way is supposed to work with flintlocks but in fact it does not works.... that's right ?
If that can't works with a flintlock, l can use only it for percussion locks ...... too bad ... 😟

Thanks. ;)
Click to expand...
In some applications, the instructions written on the Pyrodex can might work. Most likely a rifle with a chambered breech would have the flash channel direct the fire from the pan to the very back of the barrel and the black powder there. However, each rifle is different and yours is different enough that the heat rom the pan didn't reach the black powder in your breech. A traditional breech will have the touch hole above the top of the breech plug. As Zonie stated, the black powder kick start load needs to be above the touch hole or you will be trying to fire Pyrodex.
 
Don't forget the bore butter "seasoning". That + pryrodex is a recipe for a rebore for sure.
 
Zonie said:
Yes, by itself, in a flintlock, Pyrodex works poorly or not at all. With a real black powder load under the Pyrodex it is supposed to work but as you found, it isn't reliable.
In a percussion gun, Pyrodex usually works but even then, occasionally it will "hang fire" and have a delay between the time when the cap fires and the Pyrodex actually ignites. This delay isn't usually very long but it is very noticeable to the shooter. It is similar to a "slow fire" in a flintlock where the pan flashes and perhaps 1/2 to 1 second passes before the gun shoots.

Pyrodex isn't the only powder that does this delay trick in a percussion gun. All of the synthetic black powders occasionally do it.
Click to expand...
no I disagree...
 

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