Front sight soldering

Can someone give me a step by step how-to on soldering a front sight back on my fowler? I was trying to straighten it up with a small hammer and a thick piece of brass, as the sight was crooked...and yep, you guessed it....it popped off.
It's just as well, I need to make an adjustment to the POI anyhow..thanks in advance.

vids on you tube on how to solder. your metal will be already tinned so that helps. You can heat the sight, till a drop of solder will melt on it, put it on spot and clamp with a c clamp then hit it with a low torch, in feathering sweeps. You just want it to melt just for a second. The solder in a tube is easy to work with on a small surface.
It help to practice on some scrap.
You can file but don't tap or try to bend.

I used solder paste for for my fowler front sight, super easy to use and you won't be knocking it off with a hammer.

If your front barrel lug is soldered on you need to be careful not to heat that area of the barrel. Use a heat sink.

I was taught clean and degrease the area and then, "tin" the part, then "tin" the spot where the part will go. That means getting a thin layer of solder on both spots. THEN applying some solder paste (which has "flux" and will let the solder "flow"), and holding the two parts in place, apply a fine jet from a torch until the solder melts..., then stop and let it cool. Now often one uses a device of some sort to hold the parts, and the torch goes in one hand and a piece of solder goes in the other hand, and extra solder is applied at the edge of the base of the small part. The solder should be high strength. It will melt before it does anything bad to the steel in the barrel, BUT it will discolor the surface of the barrel and leave soot that should carefully be removed.

LD

OK, having soldered I don’t even remember how many replacement front sights on UnCivil War period Arms and some Brown Bess Muskets, here are some things I learned along the years.

First, you need some good LOW TEMP Silver Solder. Over many years, I found what worked best for me was Brownells 080-649-001WB 1 oz. Hi-Force 44â„¢ Wire AND the flux they recommend for it, but I don’t remember the name of the flux now. https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith.../solders-flux/hi-force-44-solder-prod709.aspx

OR ”¦.. Here’s a Low Temp Silver Solder Kit that Forum Member Wick Ellerbe recommends that has the flux and flux brush in the kit. You can get it from Home Depot, Lowes, etc., etc. On Wick’s recommendation, I have this kit sitting in front of me now, but I have not used it yet.
H-20/5 Water-Soluble Paste Flux Kit with Safe-Flo Solder http://www.homedepot.com/p/Oatey-H...lux-Kit-with-Safe-Flo-Solder-506912/202515582

Next you need a heat source. I have seen folks use low temp silver solders with just a propane blow torch, but it did not work for me as I was trained with an Oxy Acetylene Torch to Silver Solder. What I found worked best for me was the Bernz-O-Matic combination MAPP Gas and Oxygen Kit as shown in the photo link below. I used one of these kits for well over 20 and maybe 30 years and finally had to replace the kit as I dropped it and cracked one gauge head. I checked with Home Depot, Lowe’s etc. and while Home Depot stocked them, they could not get them in Richmond. So I bought a similar kit from Harbor Freight for around $ 80.00. (BTW, I learned to purchase the special and inexpensive sealant tape for Gas Lines, that can be found in hardware stores, to wrap around the threads on the bottles before screwing them into the gage heads. This tape is sold in the plumbing section.) Fair warning with these kits, the Oxygen Bottles will leak out AFTER you use them. Sometimes the unused Oxygen would be good for the next day or sometimes two, but will leak out beyond that. So when I took this kit to the National Championships to use for soldering sights, I always brought at least one bottle of Oxygen per day to use soldering sights and hardening/tempering parts. Of course if you have access to an Oxy Acetylene Torch, this is not a problem. https://static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/3X673_AS01?$mdmain$

OK, now both because a thin layer of solder is usually the strongest AND to help position the front sight and keep it in place to solder it on, I learned to do some important things by trial and error.

First, the bottom of the sight will normally not match the curvature of your barrel. So get a piece of 220 grit Emory Cloth (sand paper for metal) and use a piece about two-three inches wide to “shoe shine” sand the top of the barrel where the sight will go to clean it. Next, wrap the Emory Cloth around the barrel in the area where the front sight will go and this time, MAKE SURE the grit side is facing away from the barrel. Rub the bottom of the front sight forward and back over the grit side near where the sight will be soldered on. This will sand the bottom of the sight very close to the curvature of the barrel. You will see when it has been sanded all along the bottom of the sight to match the curvature and stop sanding at that point. BTW, this will also help clean the bottom of the sight for soldering.

Tenngun is right you then need to “tin” the bottom of the front sight with a small drop of heated solder and work the flame around so it coats the bottom of the sight as evenly as possible. Then put the front sight back on the Emory Cloth covered barrel (with the grit facing away from the barrel) and sand the bottom of the sight a bit, so it is a little closer to the curvature of the barrel, just don’t sand off most or all of the solder. This will also clean the outer surface of the solder a bit. Flux the bottom of the sight and the top of the barrel where you want the sight to go.

When I first began soldering front sights on barrels, we tightened the barrel in a vise and either I or my Mentor would sight along the barrel while the other held the front sight with a very large pair of sacrificial pliers and held the sight to solder it on. You see, the problem is the front sight will move when the solder is melted and before the solder cools, if not held in place. When I did it alone, at first I used a similar technique, but sighted from the front of the barrel to get the front sight in the right place while I held it in the pliers. Tenngun wrote about using a small “C” clamp to hold it in place and that works well, especially when you file/groove the moveable jaw to hold the front sight and you sand the solid jaw to fit the curvature of the barrel. I thought about making up a spring loaded jig to hold the sight for soldering, as shown in the link below, but just never got around to doing it. http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/840/840929.jpg

There is another way to hold the front sight for soldering and I think it was called a “blacksmith’s soldering hook.” It is a piece of bar or round stock and one end is bent down 90 degrees or more and a groove filed to fit the top of the front sight. From that bend, the rod or bar goes back straight for a while and then is bent about 60 degrees to the side. Another piece of rod or bar is welded/soldered on that goes 60 degrees in the other direction. The idea is that the two side bent pieces form legs and the hook rests on top of the sight and holds down it by gravity, even as the solder melts and the sight settles. Sorry, could not find a photo of one.

Gus

BTW, when I soldered them on and sighted from the muzzle end to align them, I laid a machinist's rule on top the rear sight as a guide to solder the sight perpendicular sort of like a "winding stick."

Now, I realize you probably don't have a rear sight on your barrel, but if you hold the barrel in a vise you could hold the barrel so a rule or winding stick could be placed on top of the vise jaws and use that as a sighting guide, that's how I did it on Brown Bess Front sights by putting an angle finder over the tang and aligning it with the angle finder on top of the vise and tightening the barrel down. Then lay the rule on the vise jaws.

Gus

I haven't done THAT job but what I have done, the flux is critical and if you overheat the area you'll burn off the flux and not get a strong joint. For solder that melts at 430 degrees, it sounds like you are using way too much heat. I've put parts over the burner on a stove and it worked okay.
If all is in the white, you might be better off with valve grinding paste and skip the emery paper. The paper has a little thickness so the curve it puts on the sight is slightly larger than the actual barrel.
I am wondering if the job could be done upside down. Tin the parts. Clamp the sight (upside down) and rest the barrel on the sight and SLOWLY heat. Wait until there is a slight movement as the parts melt together- that's sort of how I do ramrod pipes on a rib.

I used a stiff wire to wrap around the barrel and lug (or barrel and sight) . . then a propane torch and silver solder (brownell's syringe . . .not cheap, but strong). . .as you can see with this lug here.

Heated barrel lightly moving torch quite a bit - just until flux and solder start to flow then I stopped. . . careful not to over do it and lose flux and solder. (I was using map gas).

I've used the Solder It paste that Eric recommends with great results.

Just be sure everything fits together well and is clean. I use a Mapp gas torch and it takes very little heat to get a good flow.

Thanks all! I'll do a little more research before I decide which way to go. Btw, has anyone here used JB weld to do the same job as my original post? If so what was the results and which kind did ya use?

crockett said:

I haven't done THAT job but what I have done, the flux is critical and if you overheat the area you'll burn off the flux and not get a strong joint. For solder that melts at 430 degrees, it sounds like you are using way too much heat. I've put parts over the burner on a stove and it worked okay.

Click to expand...

On most of these jobs I did, the barrel thickness of UnCivil War Barrels required more heat on the barrel than the sight, though on the Brown Bess's I did, I used this torch as well. I "played" the torch mostly on the barrel and a little on the sight.

crockett said:

If all is in the white, you might be better off with valve grinding paste and skip the emery paper. The paper has a little thickness so the curve it puts on the sight is slightly larger than the actual barrel.

Click to expand...

One could do that if one wished after using the Emory Paper to get it close to the curvature. I never found it necessary, but one could do it.

crockett said:

I am wondering if the job could be done upside down. Tin the parts. Clamp the sight (upside down) and rest the barrel on the sight and SLOWLY heat. Wait until there is a slight movement as the parts melt together- that's sort of how I do ramrod pipes on a rib.

Click to expand...

Tried that by putting the barrel upside down in a vise and the front of the barrel and sight on a fire brick. Did not work for me.

Gus

I have used a product called Iso Tip. It is a silver soldering paste that comes in a syringe. It melts at a rather low temperature so a propane torch will work fine. It forms a really good bond and I have used it to solder on several barrel lugs and none have come loose. It is good stuff. :thumbsup:

I use the Hi-force 44 for all my soft solder needs. It has nearly two thirds the strength of hard solder and flows at soft solder temperature.
I have the wire but like to pound out the wire on a clean anvil to make a flat tape,cut it to shape,flux both sides with a Q-tip, place under the sight base, clamp in position and sweat the sight in place.
I like to put the sight in place on the barrel and then with a lead pencil color all around the base perimeter then clamp the sight in place from the top of the blade and sweat it on. The pencil lead applied to the barrel keeps any excess solder from running and sticking to the barrel out side the sight base perimeter. This only happens if you have had some flux run out.
The Hi- Force 44 flux is super corrosive so don't get it on anything you don't want to rust or clean with vinegar if you do.
A very effective sight clamp can be made from a small section of angle iron with a spring steel C clamp affixed to it's out side middle of he V. It will hold down the sight from the bottom of the opposite side of the barrel fitting inside the V of the angle iron, where it gets it's traction and the top of the sight blade on the other end of the C clamp holding down from the top.

Something for folks to think about:

The strength of a soldered joint depends on the type of solder used and the area of the joint.

If possible, buy a "silver bearing" solder rather than a solder that doesn't have any silver in it.

Although the amount of silver is small, it adds quite a bit of strength.

As for the area of the joint, often, people solder a thin piece of metal to serve as a front sight.

If the metal contacting the barrel is thin, it will have a very small amount of area forming the joint.

If it is wider, the area of the joint will be larger.

For instance, if you have a piece of metal that is 1/16" thick X 1/2 inch long the area of the joint will be .0625 X .5 = .0313 square inches. That's about 1/32 of a square inch.

If the base of the sight is 1/8" thick X 1/2" long, necking down to 1/16" at the tip of the sight you will have a joint area of .125 X .5 = .0625 square inches.

That .0625 square inch area is twice the size of the first example so the joint strength will be twice as strong.

Using a base on the sight that is 1/4" wide X 1/2" long, the joint area will be .125 square inches or, 4 times stronger than the simple 1/16" X .5" blade in the first example.

Put in the real world, if a solder has a shear strength of 3000 psi, the simple sight in the first example will break off with a side load of 94 pounds. The sight in the last example will break off with a side load of 375 pounds.

The reason for my post after reading yours was that I thought yours was a soft solder while Iso Tip is a silver solder. I should have read the package on your solder paste a bit more closely. Just wanted to recommend another choice. :hatsoff:

It could be worse, my foresight is currently held on with duct tape. I have more pressing problems with the sole falling off the frizzen so duct tape it is for the foreseeable future :idunno:

One of my next steps is to solder the front sight on. I did the radius sanding to fit the barrel. I have a very distinct lack of soldering experience. Most of it was observing my dad or plumbers solder copper pipes.
I’ll tin the sight, which I should be ok with and I can mark the barrel and pencil graphite to contain the solder. Since I have to heat the barrel as well as the sight can I direct the propane torch flame inside the barrel to heat below the sight? I’m going to try using a spring loaded A clamp to hold the sight in place.
Any thoughts? Thanks! Dc

Or you could get some lockite 680 high strength. Clean both surfaces put a drop on the sight base clamp in place for 24 hours and you are good to go. No mess no cleanup and a greater than solder strength joint. Not HC but it works.