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Flash melt, wads, and bore butter?

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Sine_Timore

32 Cal
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May 25, 2020
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So a local shop has me confused again. Is flash melt a real thing or was he just trying to sell me wads? I've been watching plenty of videos on YouTube and reading a lot and had not heard of flash melt until yesterday in a local gun shop. I watch a lot of Guns of the West and a few others and don't recall seeing them use wads, just bore butter. I went to pick up the last few supplies I needed for shooting and when I got my powder ( I decided to go with triple 7 by the way ) he asked if I had caps, bullets and wads. I told him caps and bullets but no wads that I was going to use bore butter. He told me not to do that because of "flash melt". He said the ignition of the powder will melt the lead ball and cause my rifling to foul with lead. I had not heard of this until he mentioned it so I bought wads just in case because they are so cheap. So was he telling me the truth or did I buy wads I didn't really need? I want to thank everyone for all the help you have provided me so far. This black powder game seems to be quite different from the centerfire world so far.
 
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I've never heard of "flash melt" before in a BP revolver. I have heard others talk about it in other guns but it seems physically impossible to me to melt that fast. When you get leading it is the High pressure that causes the leading. BP shoot at a lot lower pressure than your smokeless powders do. I wouldn't say he is lieing to you, but it sounds like another guy passing on information he actually knows little about just because he heard it somewhere.

I might want to add the leading and high pressure is from blow by. That's where the pressure is going around the projectile( usually undersized) causing erosion of the lead that deposits on the bore. I had an unmentionable rifle do it so bad that I had a coating of lead that I peeled off the muzzle. In that case some kind of wad can help.
 
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The only way I see leading happening is if the BP revolver has larger diameter bore than the Cyl. This would be rare but not unheard of.
Very common to have under size charge holes, for the most part ball obturation when it hits the barrel rifling lead in (forcing cone) will take care of size to groove depth.

As noted by others, leading has a few causes and can be because it's too hard, permitting blow by at low pressure (lack of obturation again) ,too soft with little or no lube, lead sloughs off onto bore (rifled or smooth), hot load burning the base of the bullet.

Lots of people use over powder lubed wads, lots don't (me included), a little lube over the ball (last thing you do when loading) will take care of lead rubbing against the bore and fouling softener, lubed wad will keep fouling soft. To my knowledge over powder lubed wad was not done when this style of gun was new. Never seen a chain fire that was not at the cap end.
 
"Flash melt" can and does happen to a degree. Never heard it called that before but I believe it began with the use of plain ol Crisco for overball lube.

I have fired about a bizillion loads lubed in that very fashion. Upon firing ... if you look at the cylinder chamber mouths after firing a Crisco overball lubed loads ... you will see this thin crisco has been blasted out of neighboring chambers ... but not completely.

It takes really a small amount of overball lube to do what needs to be done. Take a wad that is permeated with some type of lube for instance ... the actual amount of lube (UNDER THE BALL) is minimal. A grease groove bullet has a pretty small amount of lube trapped in the grooves (AROUND THE BULLET) .

Take a OVER THE BALL LUBED LOAD ... what is first down the barrel ...

What is the amount of lube required to ;

- Lube the barrel
- soften the powder fouling
- provide lubrication for lead to slip thru the barrel

ANSWER ... not much!

Now take a lube that is less likely to "burn" or "flash" or "melt" such as lard/bee wax mix ... any kinda talo/bee wax mix which "stiffens" the lube enough that it does not FLASH away ... certainly will do what is called for to provide plenty of lube for any need with black powder percussion style revolvers.

My very best accuracy loads have ALL been with front " OVER BALL LUBE " . The wads are a recent thing and have garnered plenty of followers but ... the over ball sytem has worked extremely well for more years than I care to count

Mr. COLTS own testimony concerning paper cartridges in his fine revolvers held that a cartridge that has been dunked in melted lube over the ball end [ see my picture upper left ] provides plenty of lube and 90 percent of this lube remains on TOP of your load.

My three cents werth
 
So a local shop has me confused again. Is flash melt a real thing or was he just trying to sell me wads? I've been watching plenty of videos on YouTube and reading a lot and had not heard of flash melt until yesterday in a local gun shop. I watch a lot of Guns of the West and a few others and don't recall seeing them use wads, just bore butter. I went to pick up the last few supplies I needed for shooting and when I got my powder ( I decided to go with triple 7 by the way ) he asked if I had caps, bullets and wads. I told him caps and bullets but no wads that I was going to use bore butter. He told me not to do that because of "flash melt". He said the ignition of the powder will melt the lead ball and cause my rifling to foul with lead. I had not heard of this until he mentioned it so I bought wads just in case because they are so cheap. So was he telling me the truth or did I buy wads I didn't really need? I want to thank everyone for all the help you have provided me so far. This black powder game seems to be quite different from the centerfire world so far.
Take a couple of steps back. Turn smartly and walk away. He doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
 
I've been shooting cap and ball revolvers for forty years and my oldest one is that old. It shows now evidence of leading with round balls. For many years I used the Crisco over the ball method of lube. I do use homemade wads between the powder and ball these days because it is less messy than an over the ball lube.

It sounds to me like the gun store person has very little experience with black powder cap and ball guns and was transferring experience with unmentionables to cap and ball.
 
IMO wads are a better idea than using a soft lube over the ball because it melts and can be messy.
Especially since smaller charges of 777 shouldn't need as much lube as powders that contain sulfur.
Are the wads that he sold you dry wads or the moist lubed Wonder wads?
 
IMO wads are a better idea than using a soft lube over the ball because it melts and can be messy.
Especially since smaller charges of 777 shouldn't need as much lube as powders that contain sulfur.
Are the wads that he sold you dry wads or the moist lubed Wonder wads?
Lubed wads
 
"Flash melt" can and does happen to a degree. Never heard it called that before but I believe it began with the use of plain ol Crisco for overball lube.

I have fired about a bizillion loads lubed in that very fashion. Upon firing ... if you look at the cylinder chamber mouths after firing a Crisco overball lubed loads ... you will see this thin crisco has been blasted out of neighboring chambers ... but not completely.

It takes really a small amount of overball lube to do what needs to be done. Take a wad that is permeated with some type of lube for instance ... the actual amount of lube (UNDER THE BALL) is minimal. A grease groove bullet has a pretty small amount of lube trapped in the grooves (AROUND THE BULLET) .

Take a OVER THE BALL LUBED LOAD ... what is first down the barrel ...

What is the amount of lube required to ;

- Lube the barrel
- soften the powder fouling
- provide lubrication for lead to slip thru the barrel

ANSWER ... not much!

Now take a lube that is less likely to "burn" or "flash" or "melt" such as lard/bee wax mix ... any kinda talo/bee wax mix which "stiffens" the lube enough that it does not FLASH away ... certainly will do what is called for to provide plenty of lube for any need with black powder percussion style revolvers.

My very best accuracy loads have ALL been with front " OVER BALL LUBE " . The wads are a recent thing and have garnered plenty of followers but ... the over ball sytem has worked extremely well for more years than I care to count

Mr. COLTS own testimony concerning paper cartridges in his fine revolvers held that a cartridge that has been dunked in melted lube over the ball end [ see my picture upper left ] provides plenty of lube and 90 percent of this lube remains on TOP of your load.

My three cents werth
Yep, noticed the same thing and hated the mess. I quit using goop lube like that and have just been adding a drop of Hemp oil over each ball for lube and chain fire protection. Sure makes shooting a lot less messy. Wife got me the Hemp oil for aches and pains but it makes a better lube, I even use on revolver cylinder pins. Been using the stuff on a patch to lube the bore after seating the bullet in my Whitworth rifle. Accuracy is fine with no leading and time will tell if it gets gummy. I think of it as "green" Whale oil substitute. Whales are scarce here on Elk Ridge.
 
Funny story..."Flash melting"...Typical of stories coming from store salesman.1-part beeswax w/ 2-parts crisco or lard in front of ball works to take the Gold at the NMLRA/NRA nationals every year. Unless you leave your gun loaded or in a holster for a long time wads are just a waste of $ ...c
 
The flash melt story may have a theoretical basis. The powder's burning temperature is higher than the melting point of the lead. Well, there is a time problem here in that the amount of time it take for the temperature of the surface of the lead to reach melting temperature the ball or bullet will be through the target. In this case the practice is the rule, not the theory.
 
The clerk may have used flawed reasoning or simply the wrong words, but he still sold him a useful product for use with 777.
Folks who use 777 don't really need a bunch of lube over the balls.
If the OP likes them he can save money by buying his own wad material in bulk from durofelt.com
Look for the 1/8" hard felt wad material that's marked "FOR WADS." --->>> Duro-Felt Products
Their prices include shipping.

Then he can punch out wads and use them dry or treated with his own lube.
Some folks make semi-solid wax "lube pills" or lube cookies to place under the ball.
Everyone has their own lube preference according to their own climate and powder needs.
 
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Yep, noticed the same thing and hated the mess. I quit using goop lube like that and have just been adding a drop of Hemp oil over each ball for lube and chain fire protection. Sure makes shooting a lot less messy. Wife got me the Hemp oil for aches and pains but it makes a better lube, I even use on revolver cylinder pins. Been using the stuff on a patch to lube the bore after seating the bullet in my Whitworth rifle. Accuracy is fine with no leading and time will tell if it gets gummy. I think of it as "green" Whale oil substitute. Whales are scarce here on Elk Ridge.

Isn't hemp oil kind of pricey?
 

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