Refinishing a refinished Zouave rifle...

An acquaintance over on another forum has lucked into what at first glance appeared to be a very good condition replica Zouave rifle - seven groove barrel and near mint lock. Having bought it, he's found out that it is, in fact, the genuine item, but the price was low because some clown had refinished the stock with Tru-oil.

We're looking for the how to get rid of the Tru-oil finish, and restore it to what it OUGHT to be.

Any helpful suggestions would be much appreciated.

TIA

Rarely do you see a thread silent for this long, especially if you say tru-oil and genuine in the same sentence...

What is this “OUGHT to be” that you feel is correct?

Poker- what did Remington put on them at the factory? That’s what it OUGHT to be.

They put a pretty hard poly finish called zytel on their wood. Ive refinished several remington stocks on modern rifles and always stripped the old manure off and used an oil finish. But do as you wish. Good luck.

TFoley, If you'll describe the lock markings and barrel markings on your piece I'll bet one of the very knowledgeable members here can help with it's likely original finish. Clear pics of the markings are often requested.

eggwelder said:

Poker- what did Remington put on them at the factory? That’s what it OUGHT to be.

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They soaked the stocks in linseed oil....

I do believe Linseed oil is the major ingredient in tru-oil and that obviously wasn’t a suitable finish for eggwelder. Thats why I assumed he was referring to Remingtons modern finish.

I actually NEVER referred to Remingtons modern finish, Poker, you did. The rifle was made by Remington 157 years ago, I would assume that it would be linseed oil, not Zyrtec or whatever. I think I am done with this thread. Sorry that I won`t be able to share anymore about this piece, beautiful as it is.

No, in the original post, you or your freind didnt refer to it as any era of zouave at all. Nor it being a Remington. You simply referred to it as a reproduction. Then you inferred that you bought it and got screwed or badly hurt feelings because it was refinished with tru-oil. Then you asked what finish Remington uses. I assumed you obviously didnt want an oil finish so must have a modern type reproduction with poly on the stock. Those are the only two choices there were.

poker said:

No, in the original post, you or your freind didnt refer to it as any era of zouave at all. Nor it being a Remington. You simply referred to it as a reproduction. Then you inferred that you bought it and got screwed or badly hurt feelings because it was refinished with tru-oil. Then you asked what finish Remington uses. I assumed you obviously didnt want an oil finish so must have a modern type reproduction with poly on the stock. Those are the only two choices there were.

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" Having bought it, he's found out that it is, in fact, the genuine item, but the price was low because some clown had refinished the stock with Tru-oil." From post #1 you can see that he refers to it as an original and all original "Zouaves" were manufactured by Remington. My impression was that he was upset because someone had refinished an original gun with a current glossy finish.

TFoley said:

An acquaintance over on another forum has lucked into what at first glance appeared to be a very good condition replica Zouave rifle - seven groove barrel and near mint lock. Having bought it, he's found out that it is, in fact, the genuine item, but the price was low because some clown had refinished the stock with Tru-oil.

We're looking for the how to get rid of the Tru-oil finish, and restore it to what it OUGHT to be.

Any helpful suggestions would be much appreciated.

TIA

Click to expand...

Ok, all I can tell you is what I would do that has worked for me. I've done this on several different finishes and have decent results.
Scrub it with 0000 steel wool. Steam a bit at a time and scrub. The steam will help to swell the softer grain and push it up. Once you feel you have scrubbed enough test a hidden area with the new stuff and see how it takes. If any coloring remains in the wood use that color if it's what you are going for otherwise darker.
I have had to just flood the piece and give it a good soaking then go back and gently scrub with the 0000steel wool and repeat till the desired is achieved. That's just a negative of getting through existing finishes that happens.
If the new stuff won't penetrate enough go over it with fine sandpaper. Sometimes steaming and 0000 steel wool can make the surface like glass which can impede the application. Once the depth is achieved and the color is right but you want it smoother then go back over it gently with the steel wool to fine cut off any fuzz without removing finish from the depth. Rub in more finish if needed.
Sometimes when I've done this after about a week some of the remaining old finish will surface in a layer that you can scratch off with your finger nail. A gentle scrub with steel wool will remove it back to new finish. May even happen again. Tis the nature of not being able to get old stuff completely out. It can happen on any finished wood. Stripper can help. Citristripper works well. It's biodegradable and washes out clean with water.

P

hawkeye2 said:

" Having bought it, he's found out that it is, in fact, the genuine item, but the price was low because some clown had refinished the stock with Tru-oil." From post #1 you can see that he refers to it as an original and all original "Zouaves" were manufactured by Remington. My impression was that he was upset because someone had refinished an original gun with a current glossy finish.

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Ok, thank you Hawkeye for the explanation. After that, looking at the OP I can see that was what was meant, I read that carefully but I sure didn’t understand it that way.

I`ve found the ignore button.

I bought the piece because it fit into my prescribed price range. I do not, as a rule, necessarily have the money for rifles i won`t shoot. It was $575 CDN, so about $440 USD. You`d pay between $600 to $800 CDN for a good quality reproduction of the same up here. I also found kits online for over $1000 USD. I sold two "modern" guns I repaired and have had for years but never used to buy this one.
I knew it had been redone, but I personally don`t care if it has collector value or not. Its a beautiful rifle that will be used extensively. Eventually I will strip the finish, let it soak in some linseed oil and put it up for a winter or so.
The rifle is amazingly light, maybe lighter than a Snyder Enfield. I can see why the standard military load would only have been 60 gr.
I took it apart last night to look for surprizes, but only found some rust in the hammer cup, and a couple of tiny spots on the barrel that mostly came off with my fingernail. The lock and tang bolts have some rust as well. The bands were installed upside down. When removed they were very tight, but turned over, they almost dropped into place. The spare nipple is missing. There are few file marks inside the lock. I have not yet cleaned the bore. It has some surface rust that I can see, sharing space with some grey spots. I need a bore light.

I am impressed with accuracy of the machine work, you can`t see any machine marks until you take it apart. I wasn`t expecting those marks but they reminded me that Eli Whitney had begun mass producing rifles in the US with interchangeable parts only a short time before this rifle was made.
All the correct cartouches are there on the stock and the metal, there are no regimental markings that I know of. It has a splintering(?) small crack at the tail end of the lock mortise. I can lift it with my fingernail. Not sure how US Army armourers would have repaired that, maybe the same as Royal armourers?
The barrel is marked STEEL. There is no case color left on the lock plate, and there is very minor pitting on the outer surface. The ramrod is the tulip cup style. There is some minor rust in the cup and a touch on the outside.
Is the rim of the ramrod cup supposed to be almost sharp?
The nipple needs replacing, it`s eroded to the point where cutting, drilling, heat and a gunsmith may be required to remove it.
If it comes out and the existing threads are serviceable, does anyone know if nipples are available for these originals?

I will post photos when I get a chance.

bang said:

Ok, all I can tell you is what I would do that has worked for me. I've done this on several different finishes and have decent results.
Scrub it with 0000 steel wool. Steam a bit at a time and scrub. The steam will help to swell the softer grain and push it up. Once you feel you have scrubbed enough test a hidden area with the new stuff and see how it takes. If any coloring remains in the wood use that color if it's what you are going for otherwise darker.
I have had to just flood the piece and give it a good soaking then go back and gently scrub with the 0000steel wool and repeat till the desired is achieved. That's just a negative of getting through existing finishes that happens.
If the new stuff won't penetrate enough go over it with fine sandpaper. Sometimes steaming and 0000 steel wool can make the surface like glass which can impede the application. Once the depth is achieved and the color is right but you want it smoother then go back over it gently with the steel wool to fine cut off any fuzz without removing finish from the depth. Rub in more finish if needed.
Sometimes when I've done this after about a week some of the remaining old finish will surface in a layer that you can scratch off with your finger nail. A gentle scrub with steel wool will remove it back to new finish. May even happen again. Tis the nature of not being able to get old stuff completely out. It can happen on any finished wood. Stripper can help. Citristripper works well. It's biodegradable and washes out clean with water.

Click to expand...

I've stripped more than one repro musket that had modern poly finishes; myself and others had good results with the orange spray-on stripper, that's low-odor and can be used indoors if necessary. You have to be patient, and do 2-3 coats, gently, so you're not raising the grain or damaging the wood with harsh mechanical scrubbing. Citristrip, as mentioned above.

The more you stir it, the more it stinks. Were it mine, I'd tone down the gloss with powdered pumice and oil and enjoy the rifle.

Some photos.

And some more

The barrel and hammer have been refinished too. Easy to take care of, use EvapoRust. It won't harm the metal at all.

hawkeye2 said:

The barrel and hammer have been refinished too. Easy to take care of, use EvapoRust. It won't harm the metal at all.

Click to expand...

This is a repro that has had a genuine old lock installed.