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Any body use aqua fortis on a plain red maple stock?

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chuck-ia

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Getting close to finishing a trade gun, I know most were walnut, but have had this stock a while and decided to use it. I have used aqua fortis in the past, scary stuff to use, but seems to penetrate deeper than other stains. The regular stains seem to wear in the wrist and forearm area, have not noticed this with aqua fortis. Any advice appreciated. chuck
 
Aqua fortis is THE historical stock stain, and is the only thing I use.

It shouldn't be scary at all to use (it can be scary to make, if you try to hurry with it).
 
Aqua fortis is THE historical stock stain, and is the only thing I use.

It shouldn't be scary at all to use (it can be scary to make, if you try to hurry with it).
How do you neutralize it? I have used baking soda and water. chuck
 
I usually use lye... which is not so good for your fingers... It will make the color turn more reddish. 200+ years ago, lye was made from wood ashes (just like making lye for soap). Baking soda will tend to keep the color the same as it was. Some people use household ammonia. I have only used it once, and it seems to have worked fine. After neutralizing, I just spray it off good with a water hose to wash everything out of the stock.

I am told, that if the aqua fortis is made right, with plenty of time to deplete the acid, neutralizing isn't necessary. But I do it anyway. (if it's still too acidic, and not neutralized, it will turn the wood VERY dark, even jet black)

I need to make some more Aqua Fortis, myself. What little I have left is remnants of what I made probably 15 years ago.
 
What I do is when the stock surface is ready, slop the stain on heavily. Get it wet, and keep it wet for a while to let it all soak in. Then set the stock aside to dry for at least an hour. You should be able to see the color change. Sugar maple will tend to turn gray. Red maple may tend to turn more greenish. (If you're using something like the Wahkon Bay stain, it has HCl in it, unfortunately, which is not needed, and tends to make a green color that does not like to go away. I would not use it, myself.)

When the stock is dry, heat it carefully with a heat gun. A radiant heat is better, but it can be hard to hold the stock and move it around over a stove burner plate! You can watch the stock turn color as you move the heat over it.

Now, I have a hard time seeing imperfections in the surface when the wood is still white, so I will often see little places that need to be fixed after stain is applied, so I will fix them and then stain again (it needs more than one application anyway). You can also "whisker" the stock here, as necessary. The stain does not continue to get darker with each application, but it may require several applications to get even coverage, especially if you've been having to fix places on the stock like I do. Actually, you can apply the stain so much, that the stock begins to be saturated, and you will have difficulty even getting it to soak into the wood at all.

When done, neutralize and then wash it all off. Let it sit for a good while to dry out and it's then ready for finish.

Aqua fortis will change the color of the wood more than just depositing a pigment in the grain. The wood remains clear and bright and natural looking, unlike with modern dyes and stains.
 
What I do is when the stock surface is ready, slop the stain on heavily. Get it wet, and keep it wet for a while to let it all soak in. Then set the stock aside to dry for at least an hour. You should be able to see the color change. Sugar maple will tend to turn gray. Red maple may tend to turn more greenish. (If you're using something like the Wahkon Bay stain, it has HCl in it, unfortunately, which is not needed, and tends to make a green color that does not like to go away. I would not use it, myself.)

When the stock is dry, heat it carefully with a heat gun. A radiant heat is better, but it can be hard to hold the stock and move it around over a stove burner plate! You can watch the stock turn color as you move the heat over it.

Now, I have a hard time seeing imperfections in the surface when the wood is still white, so I will often see little places that need to be fixed after stain is applied, so I will fix them and then stain again (it needs more than one application anyway). You can also "whisker" the stock here, as necessary. The stain does not continue to get darker with each application, but it may require several applications to get even coverage, especially if you've been having to fix places on the stock like I do. Actually, you can apply the stain so much, that the stock begins to be saturated, and you will have difficulty even getting it to soak into the wood at all.

When done, neutralize and then wash it all off. Let it sit for a good while to dry out and it's then ready for finish.

Aqua fortis will change the color of the wood more than just depositing a pigment in the grain. The wood remains clear and bright and natural looking, unlike with modern dyes and stains.
What I do is when the stock surface is ready, slop the stain on heavily. Get it wet, and keep it wet for a while to let it all soak in. Then set the stock aside to dry for at least an hour. You should be able to see the color change. Sugar maple will tend to turn gray. Red maple may tend to turn more greenish. (If you're using something like the Wahkon Bay stain, it has HCl in it, unfortunately, which is not needed, and tends to make a green color that does not like to go away. I would not use it, myself.)

When the stock is dry, heat it carefully with a heat gun. A radiant heat is better, but it can be hard to hold the stock and move it around over a stove burner plate! You can watch the stock turn color as you move the heat over it.

Now, I have a hard time seeing imperfections in the surface when the wood is still white, so I will often see little places that need to be fixed after stain is applied, so I will fix them and then stain again (it needs more than one application anyway). You can also "whisker" the stock here, as necessary. The stain does not continue to get darker with each application, but it may require several applications to get even coverage, especially if you've been having to fix places on the stock like I do. Actually, you can apply the stain so much, that the stock begins to be saturated, and you will have difficulty even getting it to soak into the wood at all.

When done, neutralize and then wash it all off. Let it sit for a good while to dry out and it's then ready for finish.

Aqua fortis will change the color of the wood more than just depositing a pigment in the grain. The wood remains clear and bright and natural looking, unlike with modern dyes and stains.
 
Thanks a lot, Another question, I like to leave the butt plate on, as it never seems to fit exactly when taken off and put back on, have heard the aqua fortis could damage the brass butt plate if left on. Have not had a problem in the past doing this, but there is allways a first time. Like I said, I have used the stain in the past, I seem to be dragging my feet using it again, maybe age has something to do with it, that and building a gun from a blank, (lots of hours) Thank you very much. chuck
 
I leave the buttplate on when staining, and nosecaps, etc. whatever will be even with the wood surface. I wish I could leave the triggerguard in, but it's too hard to get heat in around it. The metal is a heat sink, and makes it hard to change color right up next to it.

Aqua fortis won't damage the brass at all, just a little discoloration. If left on iron, it will rust like crazy, though.
 
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A good alternative is Ferric Nitrate. That is basically what you're making when making Aqua fortis. No need to neutralize, and the same results in the wood.
 
I ordered Jim Kiblers tannic acid and ferric nitrate and have finished three rifles and one pistol, and I still have enough to finish maybe two more. All premium maple stocks. I wouldn't use any thing else. You can abrade with about any finishing oil of your choice, but I like tung oil.
 
Yes, Ferric Nitrate crystals are the same thing as AF, but they give you the option of controlling your concentration. I used a 6:1 ratio (water : crystals) but you can use alcohol too. Water just takes longer to dry on the stock and you get a little better penetration with it.

With both AF and FN you would be wise to keep steel wool away from the stock during the whole building process until AFTER the FN/AF process is fully neutralized. If you get little steel flecks imbedded in the pores of the wood they may turn black from the acid treatment.
 
Not sure where to even get nitric acid to make AF with iron. Nitric acid is now a controlled substance. It is nasty dangerous stuff anyway. If one were to make AF with nitric it would have residual acid. Neutralizing could be a good idea.

I suspect all the AF you buy is simply made by dissolving ferric nitrate crystals in water. It is not acidic enough to require any "neutralizing" procedure. Lye was mentioned, it is very hazardous to use. Short is no neutralizing procedures are needed.

Buy ferric nitrate crystals cheap, dissolve in water, stain your stock. It is not complicated.
 
You can buy Ferric Nitrate crystals from The Science Company. About $15 for a good sized vial, which will be enough to stain about a dozen guns. And of course, being dry chemicals they will never wear out.

I HAD heard (from someplace, which might have been this forum) that you should use your liquid AF within a year. Don't know if it's true or not, but it's from the internet, so it MUST be.
 
"I HAD heard (from someplace, which might have been this forum) that you should use your liquid AF within a year. Don't know if it's true or not, but it's from the internet, so it MUST be."

I can not think of any reason for that. It is simply a mixture of a crystal and water. There is nothing to go bad or loose strength.
 
This is one fantastic discussion. I am trying to do a Tennessee Poor Boy and I really needed this information. I have worked on the non custom kits before, have browned and stained, but at 71, decided to do something I have been lusting after for so many years. I was worried about AF but I am getting a curly maple stock and AF is the only way it can be done. Thank you gentlemen, you have made my day. Nuff said.
 
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