Does Your State have a Primitive Deer Season

Skychief said:

ppg, good luck with your endeavor, and I mean it. As a fellow Hoosier, let me know if I can sign a petition or help otherwise.

I'd love to see a truly primitive muzzleloader season. Ideally the week previous to the firearm season!

Best regards, Skychief.

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Skychief, I'll let you know.

The way ID writes their law is that ML'ers must have an exposed primer system. In other words, no closed breech 209 primers as are common for in-lines. How they would rule on the hybrid MAg-spark, which puts a 209 where a traditional cap goes I don't know. Here'sa link to the product though.
https://warrencustomoutdoor.com/mag-spark.html

Col. Batguano said:

The way ID writes their law is that ML'ers must have an exposed primer system. In other words, no closed breech 209 primers as are common for in-lines. How they would rule on the hybrid MAg-spark, which puts a 209 where a traditional cap goes I don't know. Here'sa link to the product though.
https://warrencustomoutdoor.com/mag-spark.html

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Col. B, I have looked at Idaho's rules and theirs is the closest to a primitive season I've found, excepting the PA flintlock only season. Thanks for the help.

ppg1949 said:

To the moderators, if this thread needs to be moved please do so. Hello to all, I live in Indiana. We have a muzzleloading deer season. This includes any muzzleloader from a matchlock to a $10K scoped inline. I'm going to petition our DNR to establish a primitive firearms deer season. A primitive firearm would be
any matchlock, flintlock or sidelock muzzleloader loaded with loose black powder or loose BP substitute with patched round ball only and open sights, including tang or peep sights. Rifled or smoothbore, but no inline of any type. I spoke with one of our deer biologist and he suggested I include any states that already have a primitive firearms season. Especially any state near Indiana in any direction but any state would be helpful. A internet search was disappointing with only Georgia coming up. I really believe there are more than one state with a primitive firearm deer season. So, I'm reaching out to the members of this forum to respond about your states' primitive deer season. Thanks in advance for response.

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You would probably get more comprehensive information if you looked up the regs state by state.

Colorado has an ml season that is sort of middle of the road compared to other states. I read once that the proponents of inline, scopes, sabots, etc. (manufacturers and vendors) rate Colorado the 7th most restrictive of all the states as far as holding the line against the modern stuff.

During our ML season we share the woods with approximately 46,000 bow hunters as well as the ml hunters.

I'm not sure why having a primitive season is important?

longcruise said:

You would probably get more comprehensive information if you looked up the regs state by state.

Colorado has an ml season that is sort of middle of the road compared to other states. I read once that the proponents of inline, scopes, sabots, etc. (manufacturers and vendors) rate Colorado the 7th most restrictive of all the states as far as holding the line against the modern stuff.

During our ML season we share the woods with approximately 46,000 bow hunters as well as the ml hunters.

I'm not sure why having a primitive season is important?

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longcruise, In my search I did look at each state with less than satisfactory results. It appears to most state DNR's that a traditional open sighted matchlock, wheelock, flintlock and percussion sidelock are no different than a scoped inline shooting one inch groups at 200 yards. That is why I am seeking info on any primitive firearms season. Idaho was probably the closest state to have a true traditional muzzleloading season. Pa has a flintlock only season. Colorado was right up there as far as their season goes. I started this thread because my "local" deer biologist suggested to list any other state with a primitive season. The only one I found was the aforementioned PA flintlock season. Thanks for your suggestion, it is appreciated.

ppg, best of luck in your endeavor.

Spikebuck, thanks. Maybe we can start a trend.

appalichian hunter said:

Maryland has two muzzle loader seasons an early one sometime around the middle of Oct. and a late one the last part of Dec. alas anything goes if it loads from the muzzle. I am not sure about the cal. restrictions. My advice would be to ask for assistance from your local traditional muzzle loader clubs and perhaps organization's such as N.M.L.R.A.- N.R.A. or even a petition process from like minded hunters. I whish that the state would set aside a week for weapons as you described them. As to the archery part it is a very long season some time from the middle of Sept. through the end of the year. But being a greedy state and run by people who do not know the first thing about hunting, in my opinion it is a money thing. A purely primitive season would be nice but as stated follow the money and you will understand the process. Good luck on your quest I think you will be beating a dead horse.

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I probably am beating a dead horse. It's a nasty job but somebody has to do it, lol.

ppg1949 said:

I probably am beating a dead horse. It's a nasty job but somebody has to do it, lol.

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Maybe, maybe not. There's a lot we don't know regarding the process used in your state to change or add to regulations. Learning the ins and outs will make a big difference. I say that realizing that you may have already done that.

Did not want to imply any negative issues, any thing that will promote our passions is a worth wile endeavor just be ready for a long journey hopefully with the end results you are searching for. As to the folks whom have the final say on things II will relate a issue that happened many years ago. We used to cruise the Catoctin mountain area in Maryland especially the area near camp David and look for deer to photograph, the area was and is heavily populated with them. On one trip there were a bunch of game biologist's along the road so we stopped and inquired with them about the deer situation, there was a area fenced off about 100 yards square with plenty of natural ground cover, out side the fenced area the browse line was barren nothing except dead leaves on the ground and on the trees at least 5 ft. up nothing remained. One biologist was concerned as to what killed the cover out side the fence. While attempting to explain the situation to him he just shrugged and walked away, note this was a supposedly an educated state game biologist. Now I am not familiar with your states knowledge or regulations and am not a expert on these things but I am a hunter and make it a issue to study the habits of the animals I hunt. As stated there is not enough interest in the old black powder weapons to promote such seasons except in rare cases Pa. is one of them, If you follow the posts from Pa. traditional hunters most say they have the woods to themselves. Also as to the money issues I would bet the folks who make inline black powder weapons have lobbyist's who sweeten the pockets of state law makers. Not to mention the hunters whom use them. I support you and your efforts in every step of the way.

You know, thinking more about this, I have a burning question.....

How does it make a hill of beans difference how other states may or may not be set up for a traditional muzzleloader season?

It sounds just like a question some of our pointy-headed wildlife/hunting experts in our state would have to ask, or at least want to know. I don't see how it should matter to a possible new hunting season here.

This is absolutely not pointed at you ppg, but the Bloomingtonian you spoke with.

I've unfortunately have had to deal with folks from that part of the state for my work. I've decided 99% of them are just as liberal as their University town is. More than likely anti-hunting as well.

Rant off. Been wrestling with my furnace for hours now. Possible reason for my growly attitude. Still I will ask.....What difference does it make???

All the best, Skychief.

Skychief said:

You know, thinking more about this, I have a burning question.....

How does it make a hill of beans difference how other states may or may not be set up for a traditional muzzleloader season?

It sounds just like a question some of our pointy-headed wildlife/hunting experts in our state would have to ask, or at least want to know. I don't see how it should matter to a possible new hunting season here.

This is absolutely not pointed at you ppg, but the Bloomingtonian you spoke with.

I've unfortunately have had to deal with folks from that part of the state for my work. I've decided 99% of them are just as liberal as their University town is. More than likely anti-hunting as well.

Rant off. Been wrestling with my furnace for hours now. Possible reason for my growly attitude. Still I will ask.....What difference does it make???

All the best, Skychief.

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Wrestling with a furnace is always a bummer.
The reason behind the adding any states that already had a one was allegedly being able to study theirs and get info. I doubt I will be successful but if I can plant the seed in their minds it might happen some year. As a fellow Hoosier you know our state never wants to lead the parade. But just maybe some day it might. Thanks.

Can you not just choose to use a Flintlock during Rifle season?

Are the game wardens going to tell you that you can't use a muzzleloader instead of a centerfire rifle?

Yes, we may use flintlocks during firearms season. I do. The conservation officers have to allow it.

One thing about the Pennsylvania Flintlock season. It goes back to just before the Bicentennial, when a group of die hard folks petitioned the government for a season to celebrate Pennsylvania's long rifle. It was never intended as a season for managing the population of deer and at first it was only open under some very limited restrictions. It was for pre 1800 long guns or facsimiles thereof, shooting 44 caliber and over. The stupid Commission left anything and everything with a flint ignition into the season despite the pre-1800 long gun restriction. Plastic stocked carbines with day glo sights, etc. It is still after Christmas to separate the men from the boys, giving the flintlock hunters the dregs of the season. I have been out with my flintlock in driving snow and 3 degrees as a blizzard advanced and had a blast. Finally walked back home when the snow got to about a foot deep.

Living in Iowa and where trophy sized white tails demand a lot of attention and money.........we are like all the other states that allow all forms of muzzleloader ( but not the electronic ignition system I believe). Scope or open sight is allowed. I wish it was traditional only but money talks. I do believe that we could have even better “trophy class” deer if we would limit all the equipment so that the 200 yard shots were not a possibility of dropping that bruiser. But that is not what the state or general population of hunters want. An uphill battle!! Greg

Alabama has a conservation advisory board. If a person has a request, they find their board member and schedule a presentation before the board meeting. The more people or names on a petition the better. Then the board considers it and, if they approve, makes recommendations to the conservation dept. for the season or change.

EC121 said:

Alabama has a conservation advisory board. If a person has a request, they find their board member and schedule a presentation before the board meeting. The more people or names on a petition the better. Then the board considers it and, if they approve, makes recommendations to the conservation dept. for the season or change.

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Our system is similar to that. It's cumbersome and much complained about but it works better than having a legislature manage wildlife.

One factor I think in the broad interpretations of weapons is that many states are awash in whitetail deer and want to make it easier to reach herd management controls.

Alabama still has a Flintlock Only Season on the Wheeler National Wildlife Refuge as far as I know...

The only other deer hunting on the area is Archery, no modern weapons for deer that I'm aware of.

Hunting Regulations for that area can be found online.

No Percussion or Un Mentionables guns allowed, Only Flintlock.

Al. State Wide Regulations allow unmentionables in all other areas of the State.

I wish you luck!
Idaho is about as close as you can get...it was there but then "modified" after a bunch of folks went crazy complaining.
Current rules are no 209 or shotgun primer ignition. Projectile must be within .010" of bore diameter (no plastic thingys). Loose black powder or substitute. Open sights. The cap "must be exposed when in the ready to fire position". This is interpreted as: if any part of the cap can be seen when it is cocked, then it is "exposed".

There are some manufacturers building "modern" muzzleloaders with a very tiny hole over the top of the cap so that it can be "seen/exposed"...often called a Northwest edition.

So, many use a "modern" rifle, but there really is no accuracy advantage over a sidelock or flinter shooting a lead conical with proper twist if they have taken the time with their load development.
When Idaho originally announced they were going to make changes to the muzzleloader only rules they stated very clearly that they were doing so because they wanted to keep these types of seasons as a true short range season, and that modern advancements had taken that away. The first set of rules stated, instead of the "cap must be exposed in the ready to fire position", that ignition must be with a "pivoting/rotating hammer".
Everyone that had purchased a modern muzzleloader to extend their season went crazy, stating that their inline was now useless to them and would have to be sold at a loss over the cost of new. Enough pressure was applied that the rotating/pivoting hammer was stricken and the cap must be exposed was added.