What a difference a thin wad can make...

I've been wanting to shoot a trail walk at a club on the other side of the state, for a couple years.... There have been a few things that have kept me from getting to one. Amongst those things is the club having a 65 grain powder charge limit. Both of my smoothbores like about 85 grains 3f. This is my hunting load, which I already don't get to shoot often enough anymore, so I am reluctant to change it, and with already limited shooting time, did not really want to work up a second load from scratch. (Time, or lack thereof being another huge factor keeping me from the walk)
I had to go to the range today to shoot the load left in the gun from deer season. The best grouping load I had worked up out to 50 yards, with this particular gun, was 85 grains 3f, thin card wad, lubes felt wad, .610 round ball, thin card to hold it in, which shot groups at 50 yards that I can cover with my palm (I wear small to medium gloves), and printed about 4" high after much "shoot and file, shoot and file" work to lower p.o.i. At the start of the season I took a few more file strokes off the read sight, loaded and,,,, didn't really get to hunt much. Today, placed a target at 25 yards, pulled the toothpick from the touchhole, wiped the pan with an alcohol swabs, primed with 3f, shot, and,,,, perfect windage with the ball hitting right at the tip of the front sight for height. Finally.
I had been thinking about how to get a decent, if not perfect, shooting load, using much less powder than usual. Also, a simplified loading process, and a load that doesn't use up my good hunting components, just to have some fun shooting, would be good. Thought maybe a patched (for simplicity), lighter ball, lubed with something slicker than I normally use (for more velocity with the lower charge), might work good. I played with some patch thicknesses and ball sizes I had on hand. The best p.r.b. load I had gotten previous to the wad load was with .595 balls. They seem to fit well with a .010 patch, so thought I'd try it.
For slicker lube, I decided to try,,,, Gunzilla, I already use it as a lock oil as it doesn't seem to freeze and is quite slick it also cleans pretty well. Totally outside my usual pc/hc nature, but, pc/hc wasn't the point of this excersize. I pre soaked (not really soaked but, once the Gunzilla had wicked through the length of material, the patching just felt slightly oily, not wet) a strip of .010 patching strip from Track of The Wolf yesterday. After I shot my hunting load, I loaded my 65 grain maximum allowed charge, .595 ball with patch cut at the muzzle, and, bullseye. Must be a freak shot, let's try again. Loaded again the same, little crusty going down the tube, don't like that, my wad load doesn't crust up, well, let's see, boom, bullseye. Hmmmm. Accuracy has potential, but, this crustyness won't do. Let's add an overshot card over the powder. I swabbed (something I also never do), loaded, shot, bullseye. Loaded, no crustyness nice and smooth, boom, clang, hit the 6" plate just past the 25 yard target board. Once I added the card, I was able to load each shot like it was the 1st. I put 4 in the black and 3 more on the plate. Didn't have a chance to try 50 yards.
Here is the target,

And the load savior (load would be abandoned if I have to swab between shots),

What a helpful little rascal.

Not done testing, but a good start. I'd like a slicker lube like this, but, I don't want to have to swab and I'd like to not need the wad. But, it is nice to know such a simple fix is so effective.

Great post Brokennock!

Isn't fooling around with the smoothies just the best. It sure looks like you're onto something. Good luck at 50 yards. Please let us know how she does "out there" with this target-friendly loading.

Best regards, Skychief.

Most excellent Brokennock

How many times have I suggested adding a firewall to a load chain to many a board discussion on this forum but only to go unnoticed!
Good on ya partner

B.

Britsmoothy said:

How many times have I suggested adding a firewall to a load chain to many a board discussion on this forum but only to go unnoticed!

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Many, but not by everyone. Several years ago I was fooling around with tow wadding and having pretty good results with both ball and shot. I had the impression recoil was lighter than usual and suspected gas was blowing through the tow. Thinking about your idea of a firewall I incorporated another historic wad, simple brown paper, in the column....powder, paper, tow, ball, tow. Recoil seemed much more normal, and I shot the best group with the smoothbore that I had to that point, three shot, 7/8" on centers at 25 yards.


I'm a believer in some kind of barrier over the powder, and routinely use one, especially when using a "soft" wad such as tow or shredded cedar bark.

Good job, Brokennock.

Spence

George said:

Many, but not by everyone. Several years ago I was fooling around with tow wadding and having pretty good results with both ball and shot. I had the impression recoil was lighter than usual and suspected gas was blowing through the tow. Thinking about your idea of a firewall I incorporated another historic wad, simple brown paper, in the column....powder, paper, tow, ball, tow. Recoil seemed much more normal, and I shot the best group with the smoothbore that I had to that point, three shot, 7/8" on centers at 25 yards.
View attachment 23226

I'm a believer in some kind of barrier over the powder, and routinely use one, especially when using a "soft" wad such as tow or shredded cedar bark.

Good job, Brokennock.

Spence

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Naturally you Spence are excluded from my wanting of a generalisation.
I sincerely hope many find improvements from the well expressed account from Brokennock and yourself. Rifles too can benefit.

B.

I started off using an op card when I got my smoothbore. Doing that make a difference in my gun from the start. I use one with shot loads also.

George said:

Many, but not by everyone. Several years ago I was fooling around with tow wadding and having pretty good results with both ball and shot. I had the impression recoil was lighter than usual and suspected gas was blowing through the tow. Thinking about your idea of a firewall I incorporated another historic wad, simple brown paper, in the column....powder, paper, tow, ball, tow. Recoil seemed much more normal, and I shot the best group with the smoothbore that I had to that point, three shot, 7/8" on centers at 25 yards.
View attachment 23226

I'm a believer in some kind of barrier over the powder, and routinely use one, especially when using a "soft" wad such as tow or shredded cedar bark.

Good job, Brokennock.

Spence

Click to expand...

Show-off.

George said:

Many, but not by everyone. Several years ago I was fooling around with tow wadding and having pretty good results with both ball and shot. I had the impression recoil was lighter than usual and suspected gas was blowing through the tow. Thinking about your idea of a firewall I incorporated another historic wad, simple brown paper, in the column....powder, paper, tow, ball, tow. Recoil seemed much more normal, and I shot the best group with the smoothbore that I had to that point, three shot, 7/8" on centers at 25 yards.
View attachment 23226

I'm a believer in some kind of barrier over the powder, and routinely use one, especially when using a "soft" wad such as tow or shredded cedar bark.

Good job, Brokennock.

Spence

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Thanks Spence. I remembee those posts on using the "brown paper rubbed soft," and, if I recall correctly, the practice of carrying them on a brass colored shower rod ring.

Brokennock said:

Thanks Spence. I remembee those posts on using the "brown paper rubbed soft," and, if I recall correctly, the practice of carrying them on a brass colored shower rod ring.

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A sort of ring, but not brass. I simply bent a clip out of wire. I attach the clip to my pouch strap and can simply pull one off as needed.

Spence

Sorry for the smoothbore newbie question. Am I understanding correctly that you are using an overshot card over the powder, then ramming a patched ball and it reduced fouling in the barrel? I used an overpowder card before between powder and patched ball and didn't notice a decline in fouling, but would an overshot card be different?
Thanks for any info. I've had great groups in clean bores at 50 yards, but if I don't swab barrels between shots I get broad groups. With my shot loads I don't get the fouling build up that I get with a patched round ball.

Can't speak for brokennock but my guess is the overpower cards want wetting with olive oil.
I did this yesterday and loaded the fifth as easy as the first.
The shot load is probably getting more pressure and thus a cleaner...read efficient burn.
It could also just be a lubricant issue on your patches. Try a grease cookie.
Card+ suitable bp lube+ card.
As the lube coats the bore it keeps the foul soft.

Daryl Crawford said:

Sorry for the smoothbore newbie question. Am I understanding correctly that you are using an overshot card over the powder, then ramming a patched ball and it reduced fouling in the barrel? I used an overpowder card before between powder and patched ball and didn't notice a decline in fouling, but would an overshot card be different?
Thanks for any info. I've had great groups in clean bores at 50 yards, but if I don't swab barrels between shots I get broad groups. With my shot loads I don't get the fouling build up that I get with a patched round ball.

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No apology needed.
Yup, just the thin card shown in the picture. Commonly sold as "over shot" cards. Other than an overly lube soaked cushion wad, on top of a shot load, those thin cards and some lubed felt wads are the only cards/wads I use. Sometimes I'll use 2 or three if I think I want more thickness for some reason. It means less to carry and keep track of, thus less trips in and out of the shot pouch for each loading.

I agree with Brit as to the reason for reduced fouling. Rifle shooters will usually tell you that their tightest load shoots cleaner than a looser one.

Brokennock said:

No apology needed.
Yup, just the thin card shown in the picture. Commonly sold as "over shot" cards. Other than an overly lube soaked cushion wad, on top of a shot load, those thin cards and some lubed felt wads are the only cards/wads I use. Sometimes I'll use 2 or three if I think I want more thickness for some reason. It means less to carry and keep track of, thus less trips in and out of the shot pouch for each loading.

I agree with Brit as to the reason for reduced fouling. Rifle shooters will usually tell you that their tightest load shoots cleaner than a looser one.

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Would a un lube cushion wad broken in half over the powder be about the same as a thin card wad? Asking because 1/2 inch cushion wads is all I have.

Britsmoothy said:

Most excellent Brokennock

How many times have I suggested adding a firewall to a load chain to many a board discussion on this forum but only to go unnoticed!
Good on ya partner

B.

Click to expand...

I too tried it after reading your post, a bit of tow and yes it worked well.

Juice Jaws said:

Would a un lube cushion wad broken in half over the powder be about the same as a thin card wad? Asking because 1/2 inch cushion wads is all I have.

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Try it and see. It would be thicker than what I show in the picture. But, I think if it has a crisp edge going in 1st and fits nice and tight, it should help the same. I think part of the reduced fouling is a scraping effect, essentially pushing crud from the last shot down on top of the load, thus shooting it out with each shot. This combined with less crud due to the better seal gives the result of easier loading from shot to shot that what I experienced with just the patched ball.

I guess the next range day is 70gr 2f, overshot card, .25 inch wet fiber wad (olive oil soaked), then patched round ball. I'll try it verses itself (3 rounds) and with 80 grains.
That is a lot in the column but if it reduces fouling and gives me good groups I'll be very happy.

I like using the Nitro cards on top of the powder, it's firmer than a over shot card and seems too scrape the fouling off the bore better as it's push down on top of the powder charge .

But what I have found to work even better is using Hornadys One Shot on a 1/2" cushion wad...

I pre-dampen the wad and use it with my shot loads , on top of the shot ( Skychief Load) which includes the before mentioned Nitro Card as a barrier between my powder and shot.

I also use the dampened wad in my dimpled bare ball load out of my 16 gauge shooting a .642 -.648 roundball.
Again on top of the ball...

What I have found is that fouling varies from day to day in my area , depending on weather conditions.

By useing the lubed wad it helps keeps the fouling soft making reloading easier.

I do not work for Hornday and other such cleaners (MAP, Moose Milk) may work just as good.

I do not recomend using Horndays One Shot if your gun is too remain loaded over an extended period of time.

It states its a Cleaner/ Preservative, But the preservitive part is questionable in my book...

For hunting , if I think theres a chance my gun will go unfired for a few days I replace the One Shot with an Olive Oil dampened wad...

So far I've had no issues doing this.

If not I will try the cookie and see how that does. One suggestion I heard was to load then run a soaking wet patch (olive oil) down the barrel to wet the sruface. Anyone try that before?

Daryl Crawford said:

If not I will try the cookie and see how that does. One suggestion I heard was to load then run a soaking wet patch (olive oil) down the barrel to wet the sruface. Anyone try that before?

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Personally I don't recommend that. For a start it is to much fiddle.
Let the wad, cookie or card be your "swab".

Daryl Crawford said:

If not I will try the cookie and see how that does. One suggestion I heard was to load then run a soaking wet patch (olive oil) down the barrel to wet the sruface. Anyone try that before?

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You are talking about the "Skychief Load". He proposes a well lubricated cushion wad over the shot charge. It seems odd that a lubricated cushion wad would tighten up patterns, but there are too members on this forum that attest to the truthfulness of the claim.