• This community needs YOUR help today. We rely 100% on Supporting Memberships to fund our efforts. With the ever increasing fees of everything, we need help. We need more Supporting Members, today. Please invest back into this community. I will ship a few decals too in addition to all the account perks you get.



    Sign up here: https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/account/upgrades

Blueing

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
I have posted on this subject in the past and received some suggestions.
Truth is, I have tried several cold blue methods and all of them were worthless.
They don't cover well and hold up even worse.

Tool Black, Prema Blue, and a coupla' other private label products that were a waste of money.

Does anyone know something that truly works?
The best bluing I have ever seen and finally adopted after 25 years of hot tank salt bluing is the Niedner rust blue method made famous by Thomas Shelhammer at Niedner Arms of Doawak Michigan in I believe the 1940s and 50s. It is very durable and comes out a brown/black with a bit of frost texture from the mix of nitric and Hydrochoric acid the solution is made of that really gets a bite on steel. It is rather labor intensive to apply correctly and is very sensitive to any oil contamination until completed but once done correctly no other rust blue will ever make you very happy.
I like and use the Laurel Mtn Forge for browning all my muzzle loaders as it is very easy to apply and is not very sensitive to hand/body oil contamination.
 
The best bluing I have ever seen and finally adopted after 25 years of hot tank salt bluing is the Niedner rust blue method made famous by Thomas Shelhammer at Niedner Arms of Doawak Michigan in I believe the 1940s and 50s. It is very durable and comes out a brown/black with a bit of frost texture from the mix of nitric and Hydrochoric acid the solution is made of that really gets a bite on steel. It is rather labor intensive to apply correctly and is very sensitive to any oil contamination until completed but once done correctly no other rust blue will ever make you very happy.
I like and use the Laurel Mtn Forge for browning all my muzzle loaders as it is very easy to apply and is not very sensitive to hand/body oil contamination.
Can you give us the details of this method?
 
Rust blue. Rust it then boil it. My tank is made from a 4" thin wall steel square with the top cut out and pieces welded on the ends to make a tank. Can be heated with a propane camp stove. Rust blue is extremely durable. This is the best representation of the actual color. It can be done by getting a good brown with plumb brown then boiling the barrel. Barrel needs to be plugged to keep the water out of the bore. Hardware store dowels with a taper driven in works. Pugging the vent with a wood plug as well. Keeps rust and water out. Remove after boiling, wipe bore and install dry plugs if a another coat is needed. Card off after boiling with DEGREASED 0000 steel wool.
 

Attachments

  • P1030458.jpg
    P1030458.jpg
    149.4 KB · Views: 110
My boil tank is made out of a short section of aluminum rain gutter. Heated over Coleman camp stoves. I plug the bores with neoprene expanding plugs bought from the local Ace Hardware. Beats the heck out of pounding wooden dowels into one's muzzle. Seals better too.

There is nothing really magic about the solution one uses to cause the rust. The hair of newt and frog eye solutions are fun to read about, but hardly important. Rust is rust. What IS important is how strong your solution is. The strong it is, the more likely you will get significant pitting which you want to avoid, so diluting or applying it for shorter times is important.

More important than anything however, is preparation of the steel. Polishing it correctly requires a bit of labor and some small amount of skill. In my opinion, most people stop at much to course a finish and use much too strong a solution.

Some use a humidity box and very rarely, I do as well for the first coat, but this is not a requirement and may be a hindrance and can result in unwanted pitting.

There are a few tricks, but most of them are easily learned by trial and error, and anyone can make a professional quality blue on their first try with a little bit of effort.
 
The last barrel I did was over 2 years ago. I applied 4 coats of cold blueing, sanded with steel wool in between coats. Finished up with a bit of heat with a propane torch. Not too hot but just enough that I could see the bluing drying into the metal, it sorta clouded, if that makes sense.
The barrel has stayed good all this time.
 
My boil tank is made out of a short section of aluminum rain gutter. Heated over Coleman camp stoves. I plug the bores with neoprene expanding plugs bought from the local Ace Hardware. Beats the heck out of pounding wooden dowels into one's muzzle. Seals better too.

There is nothing really magic about the solution one uses to cause the rust. The hair of newt and frog eye solutions are fun to read about, but hardly important. Rust is rust. What IS important is how strong your solution is. The strong it is, the more likely you will get significant pitting which you want to avoid, so diluting or applying it for shorter times is important.

More important than anything however, is preparation of the steel. Polishing it correctly requires a bit of labor and some small amount of skill. In my opinion, most people stop at much to course a finish and use much too strong a solution.

Some use a humidity box and very rarely, I do as well for the first coat, but this is not a requirement and may be a hindrance and can result in unwanted pitting.

There are a few tricks, but most of them are easily learned by trial and error, and anyone can make a professional quality blue on their first try with a little bit of effort.



Where I live a damp box is a necessity. The dowels? They make great handles for handling the barrel without touching it. But they have to be removed immediately on pulling the barrel from the water. Before it cools. They also let me suspend the barrel in the tank with bent piano wire hangers. Polishing past 320 will slow the initial process and make it harder to get the barrel to wet uniformly with the first coat. This is somewhat a problem at 320 and the solution may have to be rubbed on in places. But I always go to 320 it gives the best finish in the end. If the solution is too strong it will remove the previous oxide coating back to bare steel. If this is the case put 1-2 degreased finishing nails in the solution to reduce it. When they have dissolved try it again. Adding water to a strong solution may not be a good idea and could cause serious problems acid should be added to water not water too acid. AND adding water to strong acid can make it MORE aggressive. A too weak solution will often simply stop working after a couple of coats. I have had this happen with store bought solutions as have others. Pitting is generally the result of too long between boilings. REALLY strong solutions of nitric will pit steel almost on contact. But a solution made with Nitric works better and should give better color in the end. I used to use Waukon Bay Brown and Aquafortis Stock stain mixed 50-50. Worked really well. The only good use I found the the "stock stain". It was adulterated with hydrochloric and I quit using it due the seemingly ever darkening color and the muddy/murky look it gave the wood. I came into possession of some nitric and made my own and stopped buying store bought. But this can be scary dangerous so I don't recommend it unless you understand proper method of acid to water and have the appropriate safety gear (one drop of a strong acid in your eye and vision is gone forever). And a secure place to store the acid to be used. Angiers book on Blueing and Browning is a good reference but often has a lot of strange chemicals in the formulas. Also note that "blueing" and "browning" are used interchangeably by the British it seems.
Acid and water. Lots of information if you search for it.
https://antoine.frostburg.edu/chem/senese/101/safety/faq/always-add-acid.shtml
 
The expansion plugs have bolts that make even better handles than dowels. Hook them out with wire loops and use them to hold the barrel while carding with a fine wire wheel from Brownells (get the wider one, mount it in the drill with a 1/4" bolt).

I always polish to at least 600 grit, usually 800, and occasionally 1000. Always better to over polish rather than under polish for a very fine finish. It is never a problem to start the process even without a humidity box in the dead of an Iowa winter if you 1. wring out your application pad as much as possible - less is more when starting the barrel. 2. be patient for the first few applications. It may not look like much but it is happening. Later in the process you can use a wetter pad.

I have used Waukon Bay (diluted), Laural Mt. Forge (diluted at least 50%), and many others. WinRest (straight) was my favorite, but WinRest is no more. I use 12 hrs between applications: once in the morning before leaving for work, once in the evening when I get home. My dilutions are adjusted to work with that interval. In 5 days, I am usually done. In this way, it takes very little time per day and is not a labor intensive operation. Occasionally a difficult barrel will require a few more passes.

People often stop too early in their bluing. It looks nice and dark, but wears quickly and may rust unintentionally. I try to run several applications past what appears to be "done" and in doing so, the amount of material carded off begins to decline with each coat - because the steel is approaching being fully treated. If you are still getting a lot of carding dust (wear a mask), then you probably need a few more treatments.

While the barrel is still hot from the last boil, rub down with beeswax or paraffin wax or even some stock finish.
 
Can you give us the details of this method?
I always recommend a bluing cabinet because you can count on a consistent and repeatable atmosphere in which to learn the best tweaks to your method of rust bluing for best results. It is also able to be used the year around not just in the humid months which is when Neidner did their rust bluing.
The Neidner method starts with mixing the solution which is comprised of Nitric, Hydrochloric acid, black wire and distilled water. The solution when mixed has a very vigorous chemical reaction involving a lot of heat and poisonous fume release so must be mixed in a pyrex glass container, out doors, if done on a personal level. I've mixed my own twice and have survived with no issues but there are some other solutions out there that I've read work well without one having to mix the chemicals personally.
The regimen is done in 3 hour sessions with a bluing cabinet then carded with wire wheels and brushes followed by 10 minutes of boiling then repeated. I usually use 6 applications.
When a barrel steel is found to be resistant to the solution a 1 to 10 ratio of distilled water and nitric acid can be applied as an etching agent or you can sand blast followed by a glass bead blast which is what I prefer.I have found 70 grit garnet sand followed by glass beads give a beautiful satin finish with very deep penetration of oxides for a very attractive and durable finish that wears extremely well over a long time.
The big thing I have found with rust bluing is to not over apply the coats. The first application of solution in each evolution needs to be done evenly with no drips or runs. If you miss a bit because your pad or swab ran dry leave it until the next evolution. It is hard as can be not to try and go over it to get the area wetted the same but leave it alone until the next evolution or you will make an unevenness in the finish that is very hard to card out.
Sun light is what will reveal how evenly the finish has been applied and will show any differences in depth and texture.
I use the same technique with Laurel Mtn.Forge but with no boiling. Instead the steel is carded by rubbing a course hot water wetted piece of burlap or canvas cloth. I also use the soft wire wheels and hand brushes purchased from Brownells with .003 thick wire bristles.
Niedner method is very sensitive to any oils so the work must be handled with washed linen gloves where as the Laurel Mtn. Forge work can be handled with bare hands with no ill effect.
Niedner also polished the work out to about 400 I believe but I much prefer the garnet sand and glass bead finish as it allows deeper penetration and looks about the same as the polished finish that is made porous by the solution pitting of the surface.
I use a bore protect-ant called "Hold" purchased from Brownell's which is made to apply to polished steel to prevent oxidation until the solution is applied. I coat the bore with this along with the tapered wood bore plugs/handles then drive in the plugs which seal the bore and protect it from any leakage. I have never found any need to change the wood plugs between boiling when so applied.
Niedner used shellac to seal their barrel bores but I have found it hard to remove so switched to Hold from Brownell's which is easily removed when finished and works just as well to protect the bore.
If one has the chemicals and wants to mix it them selves I can provide the technique and technical data as described in a book I have authored by Roy Dulapp but it is messy and some what dangerous so would recommend they purchase a bottled solution.
Remember Acid Into Water just Like you oughta, not the other way around. And run the acid down a rod don't just pour it in.
 
I would think alcohol would remove shellac very easily. And shellac would be pretty easy to apply to the bore for a protectant. Thank you for mentioning that.
 
I always recommend a bluing cabinet because you can count on a consistent and repeatable atmosphere in which to learn the best tweaks to your method of rust bluing for best results. It is also able to be used the year around not just in the humid months which is when Neidner did their rust bluing.
The Neidner method starts with mixing the solution which is comprised of Nitric, Hydrochloric acid, black wire and distilled water. The solution when mixed has a very vigorous chemical reaction involving a lot of heat and poisonous fume release so must be mixed in a pyrex glass container, out doors, if done on a personal level. I've mixed my own twice and have survived with no issues but there are some other solutions out there that I've read work well without one having to mix the chemicals personally.
The regimen is done in 3 hour sessions with a bluing cabinet then carded with wire wheels and brushes followed by 10 minutes of boiling then repeated. I usually use 6 applications.
When a barrel steel is found to be resistant to the solution a 1 to 10 ratio of distilled water and nitric acid can be applied as an etching agent or you can sand blast followed by a glass bead blast which is what I prefer.I have found 70 grit garnet sand followed by glass beads give a beautiful satin finish with very deep penetration of oxides for a very attractive and durable finish that wears extremely well over a long time.
The big thing I have found with rust bluing is to not over apply the coats. The first application of solution in each evolution needs to be done evenly with no drips or runs. If you miss a bit because your pad or swab ran dry leave it until the next evolution. It is hard as can be not to try and go over it to get the area wetted the same but leave it alone until the next evolution or you will make an unevenness in the finish that is very hard to card out.
Sun light is what will reveal how evenly the finish has been applied and will show any differences in depth and texture.
I use the same technique with Laurel Mtn.Forge but with no boiling. Instead the steel is carded by rubbing a course hot water wetted piece of burlap or canvas cloth. I also use the soft wire wheels and hand brushes purchased from Brownells with .003 thick wire bristles.
Niedner method is very sensitive to any oils so the work must be handled with washed linen gloves where as the Laurel Mtn. Forge work can be handled with bare hands with no ill effect.
Niedner also polished the work out to about 400 I believe but I much prefer the garnet sand and glass bead finish as it allows deeper penetration and looks about the same as the polished finish that is made porous by the solution pitting of the surface.
I use a bore protect-ant called "Hold" purchased from Brownell's which is made to apply to polished steel to prevent oxidation until the solution is applied. I coat the bore with this along with the tapered wood bore plugs/handles then drive in the plugs which seal the bore and protect it from any leakage. I have never found any need to change the wood plugs between boiling when so applied.
Niedner used shellac to seal their barrel bores but I have found it hard to remove so switched to Hold from Brownell's which is easily removed when finished and works just as well to protect the bore.
If one has the chemicals and wants to mix it them selves I can provide the technique and technical data as described in a book I have authored by Roy Dulapp but it is messy and some what dangerous so would recommend they purchase a bottled solution.
Remember Acid Into Water just Like you oughta, not the other way around. And run the acid down a rod don't just pour it in.
I made an error in sequence, the wire carding is accomplished after the boiling when bluing.
 
I will add a tip that has been very helpful to me over the years in striking a barrel wither it be round or octagon. I bought a barrel spinner for finishing round barrels on a sanding belt or buffing wheel and use it for the striking/filing down after a barrel is turned before the sanding step. The spinner mounts the barrel between wooden centers that keeps your file flat to the barrel flat and allows you to run one stroke full length each time.
It works equally well when striking/filing a round barrel. Be sure to card the file teeth regularly and chalk the file teeth to keep filings from sticking. A gall scratch from filings stuck in the teeth are very hard to remove.
I like to slide my palm with the file teeth set after each stroke which removes most of them and leaves the chalk in the teeth bottoms.
 
I would think alcohol would remove shellac very easily. And shellac would be pretty easy to apply to the bore for a protectant. Thank you for mentioning that.
I tried shellack twice many years ago and got some very slight pitting underneath it and found it hard to get completely out of the bore. I have had zero issues with "Hold" in the bore and on the wood plugs.
 
Hello M. De Land, You mentioned hot salt tank bluing. I recently saw a u tube on this and am interested. You mentioned using it for 25 years. Would you recommend it? Is it not applicable to this forum, or just harder to do? I get that molten salt is a hazard unto itself.... I could see longer barrels may be hard, but pistol barrel etc? Any references anyone else could suggest would be appreciated.
 
Hello M. De Land, You mentioned hot salt tank bluing. I recently saw a u tube on this and am interested. You mentioned using it for 25 years. Would you recommend it? Is it not applicable to this forum, or just harder to do? I get that molten salt is a hazard unto itself.... I could see longer barrels may be hard, but pistol barrel etc? Any references anyone else could suggest would be appreciated.
I acquired the tanks,burners, oil bath and other hardware for hot salt bluing and liked the results it gave on many rifle barrels but never liked the mess and time it took to do. I used the Oxnate #7 bluing salts from Brownell's and liked it.
I read about Niedner's rust bluing and begin to take notice of rust blued shotguns and a few vintage rifles which greatly impressed me. I decided to make up some solution and give it a try. I was so pleased with the appearance and durability it just seemed nuts to keep bluing by an inferior method. My tanks, burners , stands and related hardware are covered over and will be sold as cold rust bluing is a better mouse trap in my view.
 
I think bluing can be removed chemically.]
Naval Jelly will remove bluing easy as can be.
It will also clean and prep your metal for future bluing or browning.
But for best results use brake cleaner and rubber gloves.
Do NOT handle your metal with your dirty oily hands, it will result in a lousy finish.
Fred
 
Fred, Acetone will work for cleaning also but so will denatured alcohol - which is cheaper and probably the better of the options with regards to hazardous fumes. Just wipe down the barrel with it using a paper towel or a piece of an old t-shirt. Dries in a few seconds so you are good to go. Just some other options that may work for some folks.
 
Yeah, I use an acetone de-grease regularly for bluing or browning but like to wipe the metal with a clean cloth after it dries as it will some times leave a slight powdery residue on the metal surface.
 
Back
Top