Did they use patches?

ppg1949 said:

Even pillow ticking probably varied in thickness by manufacturer.

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It still does today, all materials that we buy from fabric makers today must be checked to see if it will work.... so the same situation applying in the heyday of muzzleloading rifles doesn't meant they didn't patch the ball with cloth or leather.

LD

I see folks extolling the virtues of certain materials such as "Walmart red stripe ticking" or some other color. Those stripes are not necessarily indicative of thicknesses. I have three pieces of Walmart blue striped that are significantly different in thickness.

Loyalist Dave said:

It still does today, all materials that we buy from fabric makers today must be checked to see if it will work.... so the same situation applying in the heyday of muzzleloading rifles doesn't meant they didn't patch the ball with cloth or leather.

LD

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LD, So the gunsmith made the mold for the rifle and it was up to the buyer to find patching material that fit good like today. Or did the buyer tell the gunsmith what patching he was using and then the gunsmith made the mold? There wasn’t any kind of standardized dimensions like today were there, except maybe rifles from the same shop maybe.

The gunsmith made the mold with a "cherry" bit, to fit the bore, expecting a patch. We know this from surviving molds, cherries and rifles. We also know that trading posts and armories sold or issued pre-molded ball as inventories mention "rifle ball" as well as "musket ball" and "carbine ball". Whether the ball was a good fit for what was locally used for a patch in the rifle, or not, is not known. Not every rifle today is a "good shooter" and it's possible that such was the case with barrels back then, until or if ever the owner got a proper patch to go with the ball. Look at the numbers of posts with fellows having accuracy problems today with modern barrels made by using machines that have exact tolerances. Some folks today have to put a buffer between the powder, and the patched the ball to get the barrel to work, right?

LD

Loyalist Dave said:

The gunsmith made the mold with a "cherry" bit, to fit the bore, expecting a patch. We know this from surviving molds, cherries and rifles. We also know that trading posts and armories sold or issued pre-molded ball as inventories mention "rifle ball" as well as "musket ball" and "carbine ball". Whether the ball was a good fit for what was locally used for a patch in the rifle, or not, is not known. Not every rifle today is a "good shooter" and it's possible that such was the case with barrels back then, until or if ever the owner got a proper patch to go with the ball. Look at the numbers of posts with fellows having accuracy problems today with modern barrels made by using machines that have exact tolerances. Some folks today have to put a buffer between the powder, and the patched the ball to get the barrel to work, right?

LD

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LD, thanks for the explanation.

Just a note on striped ticking. Red striped is often what is referred to as pillow ticking. The blue striped is often mattress ticking and is thicker. Then there is striped in both colors for garments and other uses. As Loyalist Dave said one needs to check the thickness. Also if you know what thickness your rifle likes it is much easier to find an alternative source if needed.

Ben Meyer said:

More of them used smoothbore than we'd like to believe

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I suspect that a lot of rifles were shot as smooth bores also. Notice I said suspect and not "assume". As word handed down from my ancestors from 100 years that spent a lively hood of trapping and hunting: most small game was trapped or clubbed. My great uncle carried a long bow. The story is he could shoot as straight as any archer but used his gun for shooting around corners. The old timers made a lot of fun and mark my word, back then if a hunter had one gun, he probably knew how to use it.
The reason I think some rifles were used as smooth bores, I have been told stories that geese, ducks and quail were harvested with long rifles with shot. It seems shot was always available, but not ball ammo. That is hard to believe now, but I could see then, maybe even pea gravel , and ball lead can be made from shot.
We cringe thinking that a rifle is filled with shot and fired, those old timers were hunters and trappers in the old way, they probably knew it was hard on the gun, but the gun was a tool and not worshiped as much as the traps and the frugal way of getting meat on the cheap in that day.
Even today, I was instilled at a young age to spare the powder and led. I feel guilty about sending lead down range after getting acquainted with a gun and not getting something to eat. I enjoy trapping, but at the young age of 71 and being spoiled by having plenty, I will watch this muzzle loading forum instead.

Kansas Jake said:

Just a note on striped ticking. Red striped is often what is referred to as pillow ticking. The blue striped is often mattress ticking and is thicker. Then there is striped in both colors for garments and other uses. As Loyalist Dave said one needs to check the thickness. Also if you know what thickness your rifle likes it is much easier to find an alternative source if needed.

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I recently bought a yard of teh rd striped at Jo Ann Fabrics, once home and measured, it was .020 inch, their blue striped measured at .015 which I'm using for almost all my muzzleloaders.

Generally you can feel the difference in thickness by simply feeling the thickness. This probably only applies to the difference between mattress and pillow ticking. Feeling still doesn’t give an accurate measure of thickness.

sawyer04 said:

I have been told stories that geese, ducks and quail were harvested with long rifles with shot. It seems shot was always available, but not ball ammo.

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The rifling would still put a spin on the shot column, causing the shot to be unlikely to hit anything past 5 to 10 yards with enough pellets/shot to wound, let alone kill so much as a sparrow or humming bird.
Sorry, I suspect they was feeding a kid that didn't know any better a B.S. story.
Just like when my great grand father told me he had to walk 18 miles - through 9 feet of snow - uphill both ways - to and from school every day.

We know Boone bought 200 thread count linen for his shooting. Today we can get our breech cloths in a wad over patch/ball combinations we shoot our gun dreaming of a 50 5x, one hole at a hundred yards .
They weren’t as concerned back then. A six inch or even a twelve inch group is meat on the table, or an enemy that’s out of action.
A dare say they shot a looser load then we often do today, and much looser then you might find in a nationals match.
Patches were first described in the sixteenth century. And precut at that

Curious, Does anyone replicate the Lewis and Clark Flintlock?
SM

Don Stith has a kit for the 1792 contract rifle that can be fitted with the 1803 Harper's Ferry lock. That is according to many the rifle they took from the arsenal. Others insist it was the 1803 rifle. I have no set opinion on that so please don't expect me to partake in that argument.

The contract rifles are essentially late 18th century Pennsylvania rifles.

Here's a link. http://www.donstith.com/muzzle_loading_rifles.html

As for the rifles of L&C, there isn’t any hard evidence of what they carried. One require the was for the rifles to shave common and interchangeable parts. Since the contract rifles were made by several different makers it’s not think this would be easy to do. I was talking to a gentleman who believes he has handled one of the L&C rifles and it appeared to him to be similar to the 1803 Harpers Ferry, but not exactly the same. Serial no 14. L&C ordered 15 rifles. Until some one finds a rifle with Sgt Gasse or John Colters name on it, will we ever truly know?
LC

My original percussion rifle had a load in it when I first got it from my dad. It’s been handed down in the family since it was new. The ball was patched with what appeared to be paper torn from a book. Not sure when it was last loaded but they did use something of a patch.
LC

sussexmuzllodr said:

Curious, Does anyone replicate the Lewis and Clark Flintlock?
SM

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The Rifle Shop has the parts for what he believes is the rifle they carried. It’s his opinion. Others have differing ones. Who knows whose right

Thanks for the feedback

Sm

Lonesome Charley said:

As for the rifles of L&C, there isn’t any hard evidence of what they carried.

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Accept for the Girandoni air rifle.

Carbon 6 said:

Accept for the Girandoni air rifle.

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Very true