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NO LOGIC AT ALL. I THINK

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This has long puzzled me. Some the allegedly very best muzzleloading riflemen do not pour their powder charges down the barrel where some of the powder might not fall all the way to the breech but for static electricity might adhere to the barrel side not all the way down.
To avoid this problem they insert a long tube down the barrel and pour the powder down that so that all the powder collects neatly in the breech ready for the firing spark.
What puzzles me is the fact that the powder might stick to the side of the tube and remain there and never get to the breech at all. I don't know what the tubes are made of but in most cases as they pass through tour hands the static electric will really build up. That's really the second lapse in logic th first being that if in pouring the powder down the actual steel barrel some flecks or more of the powder adheres to the steel partway down won't the rather tight fitting patched ball sweep if off the bore wall and into the breech where it and all the other powder are waiting for the firing spark.

This practice continues in spite of my thoughts and so. one might figure. there remains a good reason for doing it.
Would some Maven out there explain it to me?
Dutch Schoultz
 
The tube thing sounds like an answer in search of a question.

I think you've already addressed the logic (actually lack thereof) in using such a tube.

One might assume that the practice started when someone was outscored by a shooter who thought, "Hey, this sounds like a good idea!" then his buddy assumed it was the tube that did it, when really the guy was just a better shot or some other aspect of his loading regimen made the gun more accurate. Then, like a game of telephone, word got around that so and so has found the secret to supreme accuracy, and it's this tube thing...blah, blah, blah.

Anyway, it sounds like kind of a dopey idea to me for exactly the reasons you've already mentioned. Think how loose the patch/ball fit would have to be to NOT push any adhered powder down the bore.
 
The drop tube is used to make the powder settle consistently at the bottom of the barrel. It also settles the powder better allowing more in a given volume like a cartridge. A smaller version is also used to load BP cartridges to get more powder under the bullet. It is similar to tapping the side of your powder measure to settle the powder in the measure. It makes breech pressure more consistent in a muzzle loader which allows for consistent velocity and point of impact. Bench shooters are the main(but not only) users of the drop tube. Offhand shooters have other things to worry about besides .25" of variation in a group.
 
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The drop tube is used to make the powder settle consistently at the bottom of the barrel. A smaller version is also used to load BP cartridges. It makes breech pressure more consistent in a muzzle loader which allows for consistent velocity and point of impact. Bench shooters are the main(but not only) users of the drop tube. Offhand shooters have other things to worry about besides .25" of variation in a group.

While I can certainly see the presumed benefits in loading BP cartridges, I still have a couple of questions. 1) What happens to those BP cartridges once you flip them over to load them into the rifle?
2) Won't my ramrod kind of cancel out any kind of pressure caused by dropping powder down a tube?

I'm not saying these things are NOT done; I'm just agreeing with Dutch in failing to see the logic even after hearing the answer as to why they are done.

I know Lyman supplied a drop tube with it's #55 BP measure, but I never understood how it was supposed to help. My #55 without the drop tube throws exactly the same volume of powder as the one with the tube because the powder chamber on the measure is identical. How will dropping it 12" change that? If you are using a compressed charge, the bullet will provide the consistent pressure. If there is space between the powder and the bullet once it is loaded, the powder is then free to roll around in there as it pleases. I think it's a marketing gimick.
 
While I can certainly see the presumed benefits in loading BP cartridges, I still have a couple of questions. 1) What happens to those BP cartridges once you flip them over to load them into the rifle?
2) Won't my ramrod kind of cancel out any kind of pressure caused by dropping powder down a tube?

I'm not saying these things are NOT done; I'm just agreeing with Dutch in failing to see the logic even after hearing the answer as to why they are done.

I know Lyman supplied a drop tube with it's #55 BP measure, but I never understood how it was supposed to help. My #55 without the drop tube throws exactly the same volume of powder as the one with the tube because the powder chamber on the measure is identical. How will dropping it 12" change that? If you are using a compressed charge, the bullet will provide the consistent pressure. If there is space between the powder and the bullet once it is loaded, the powder is then free to roll around in there as it pleases. I think it's a marketing gimick.
It doesn’t change the volume (amount) of powder, it settles the powder so the measured volume takes less space in the cartridge case (or chamber if muzzleloader). Why tap the side of your muzzleloader? Perhaps to settle powder into the flash channel or near the vent... drop tubes do the same thing only more efficiently.
Walk
 
It settles the powder to allow more grains per unit of volume, I.E., you can get 60gr. where only 55 would go without the tube and without crushing the grains and changing the grain size . In his famous book Ned Roberts mentions using one for better accuracy. That book is a must read for anyone who is serious about accuracy. It is mostly about muzzleloading bullet shooting, but the basic info still applies. Those late 19th and early 20th century folks were way more serious about accuracy than anyone shooting today.
Most BP cartridges have powder right up to the bullet or a wad/filler to take up the space.
 
As I said, for offhand shooting it is probably a waste of time. Too much wobble to care about the last fraction of an inch. Internal ballistics are a sort of mystery world, but everything done inside a barrel or cartridge affects pressure which affects accuracy.
 
While I can certainly see the presumed benefits in loading BP cartridges, I still have a couple of questions. 1) What happens to those BP cartridges once you flip them over to load them into the rifle?
2) Won't my ramrod kind of cancel out any kind of pressure caused by dropping powder down a tube?

I'm not saying these things are NOT done; I'm just agreeing with Dutch in failing to see the logic even after hearing the answer as to why they are done.

I know Lyman supplied a drop tube with it's #55 BP measure, but I never understood how it was supposed to help. My #55 without the drop tube throws exactly the same volume of powder as the one with the tube because the powder chamber on the measure is identical. How will dropping it 12" change that? If you are using a compressed charge, the bullet will provide the consistent pressure. If there is space between the powder and the bullet once it is loaded, the powder is then free to roll around in there as it pleases. I think it's a marketing gimick.

The powder is NOT loose in the cartridge. It is either held slightly compressed by a filler wad, or it is compressed by the bullet. As for the use of a drop tube, please ask those who shoot long bullets out to 1200 yards if THEY just pour the powder down the barrel....and by the way, the drop tube HAS to be longer than the barrel, and I don't know of ANY 12" long rifle barrels. The same goes for the precision single-shot muzzle-loading target pistol. They DO have a 12" or so barrel, and they DO use a drop tube. Take a look at Dr Németh on his capandball movie channel on Youtube to see him shooting his Pedersoli LePage pistol. and BTW, he is a many times gold medal pistol shot for his country.
 
I think the idea of using a drop tube originated with the people who shoot black powder cartridges.
They were trying to reproduce loading the shells in the same manner as people have when they load their muzzleloading rifles. That is, allowing the powder to fall a long distance which allows the powder to pack itself in tightly and evenly at the bottom of the barrel.
Since this is impossible with a short cartridge, using a long metal tube was used with the shells to create something that could do this.

The popularity of using a drop tube to load black powder cartridges and the good accuracy these guns had caused a "turn around" in thinking and some people who shoot muzzleloaders seriously in competition decided using a drop tube to load the powder must be a good idea.

In my opinion, the only real benefit of using a drop tube in a muzzleloader is it keeps the loose powder from sticking to the walls of the barrel. This might be a worthwhile idea if the barrel had been recently wiped with a wet patch and not thoroughly dried because it would keep the powder from getting wet from contacting a damp bore.

The drop tubes used in muzzleloaders are usually made of brass tubing. Not only is it easy to find but the brass tube won't cause any wear or sparks as it is inserted into or removed from the bore.
 
This has long puzzled me. Some the allegedly very best muzzleloading riflemen do not pour their powder charges down the barrel where some of the powder might not fall all the way to the breech but for static electricity might adhere to the barrel side not all the way down.

I wasn't aware that black powder was susceptible to static cling on steel, or at all for that matter.
 
Seems like it would be easy enough to set up an experiment to test this, no?
I CAN'T IMAGINE GOING TO THE TROUBLE.
IF THE FALLING POWDER IS SUPPOSED TO STICK ON THE INSIDE OF THE BORE ABOVE THE BREECH, WHY WOULDN'T THE SAME THING HAPPEN WITH THETUBE?
ALSO THE RUSH OF AIR FROM THE NEXT PATCHED JAF WOULD BLOW THAT LOOSE POWDER DOWN AND THEN THE PATCHEED JAG WOULD SWEEP IT ALL DOWN.YES?
ARE YOU DEVELOPING A FOREIGN ACCENT> MAYBE?
HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO YOU. I'M GLAD WHEN YOU COME ON BOARD AS YOU HAVE BECOME PART OF MY EXTENDED FAMILY.

DUTCH
 
In my long range shooting, 300 to 1000 yards with my Gibbs, I always use a drop tube measure. It settles the powder in the breech, then when the bullet/wad is pushed down to you just feel it touch the powder. I then raise the rod about 1/2 inch and drop it. This helps get a more consistent pressure in the breech and I will promise you, it improves accuracy greatly at long range.
 
Just wipe between shots and all your problems go away.
THAT;S AN AMAZING COINCIDENCE THAT WE BOTH THINK THE SAME WAY.THERE ARE HUNDREDS WHO FIGHT THAT IDEA LIKE IT COST MONEY/
PEOPLE HAVE WRITTEN THEMES IN OPPOSITION. SOME WILL LUBRICATE WITH SOME VARIETY OF GOO WHERE THEY DON'T HAVE TO WIPE BETWEEN SHOTS BUT THE EXTRA SLICKNESS RUINS THEIR GROUPS.
ON THE OTHER HAND THERE are some, rather a few who have found a balance of sorts were they have decent results on target and don;t wipe at all. I think they do it to be mean or something.
The biggest flaw in my and your advice is that a certain percentage will wipe with a WET patch letting excess water drip into the breech pre dampening the oncoming powder charge.
Tsk.

Dutch Schoultz
 

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