TOLERANCES

All together now.. Ho Hummer
For several years I have been seeking a method to demonstrate andexplhin TOLERANCES.
I have been told not to wear the same shoes everyday or my feet would soon cease to resemble feet.
Sitting in my bedroom this morning which resembles a small terrorist after action scene I noticed I he'd nine pairs of shoes size nine and a half D. Seven appear to be identical and were probably made in China to American standards
They must all be alike.right?
Well they should but some are almost too tight fitting to wear and others are much moreroomey and comfortable. What could possibly be the difference.
They were all made to "be in the neighborhood of 9.5 D"but there is that obvious variation.
That slight variation exists in everything that is manufactures and is of particular importance in all rifles including the wonderful muzzleloaders.
Charley has a gun barrel just like yours. If you load a patched ball using one of his balls cast from a single ball mold using his patching material and carefully calculated lubrication the two rifles may shoot exactly the same but often in this experiment may shoot a little bit different because of tolerances allowed in the making of the two barrels. His barrel may be a very slight bit bigger than yours or vice versa. Now if we change the lead ball to one that came labeled to be the same size as Charley's we now have added another variable to increase the possible difference.
Charleys says his shooting patch material is .015 when measured the correct way with a micrometer and does yours and here can be a much greater variable because Charlie's patch material when measured using a compressed method will shrink to .0135 when crushed between ball and bore and yours will crush even further to .095.
So you and Charley think you are loading and firing the same load in two identical rifles and getting surprisingly different results. Maybe now you can see how this happens and how Charley is getting better results doing exactly the same thing you are. or so you think.

To shoot well you must try to eliminate those variables caused by teetotal sum of all those variations. Use balls all cast from the same mold. Use patching that fits exactly to form a perfect seal around the ball and keep all other elements exactly the same and you should have consistent satisfactory results.
Dutch Schoultz

Dutch,
Thanks for the explanation, I agree.

Dwight Rutherford said:

Dutch,
Thanks for the explanation, I agree.

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You are welcome. Big Time.
I note that I get thank you's like yours and quite a few others whose names or handles do not often appear among the people who have comments on the main ML Forum.
A recent subscriber from a nearby state dropped in this area to visit his daughter and stopped by at my place and, although he had not as yet read a word of my wisdom (?) talked with me for some time.
Everybody out there banging away has some kind of story or question they are dying to ask but just can't risk exposing themselves to the general population.
Oddly I get some of the more interesting posts from people in foreign countries where shooting of any kind is severely restricted by their governments or their local situation. A man from Krefeld. Germany. has to plan way ahead for his one hour chance to do some practice shooting across the border in Holland.
There are ways to stir things up like faking a post claiming all squirrel hunters are gay and then deal with the outrage that might cause, butI and few others are interested in dealing with outrage and would just like to discuss things that happened to them in the field. forest or range.How to deal with overly arrogant range managers who interfere with regular casual shooting with too many needless rules that are there just to demonstrate their "Power". and so forth.
Thank you. I appreciate your thoughts on my views of the almost invisible small things that affect our accuracy. I have been wondering how to explain them and you probably had the same thoughts long ago BUT NEVER MENTIONED THEM ONN THE FORUM.
DO I SEEM TO NAG ? IT WILL MAKE THE BACHELORS FEEL MARRIED.
DUTCH SCHOULTZ

Good points, Dutch. I feel sorry for the guy in Germany.

I compared two. 54 rifles once using the exact same components. Ball, patch, powder, lube and measure. One was a GPR and the other was a TC Hawken. Both shot reasonably well but the Hawken was noticeably tighter when Loading. Even with its barrel 4" shorter it was faster over the chronograph.

longcruise said:

Good points, Dutch. I feel sorry for the guy in Germany.

I compared two. 54 rifles once using the exact same components. Ball, patch, powder, lube and measure. One was a GPR and the other was a TC Hawken. Both shot reasonably well but the Hawken was noticeably tighter when Loading. Even with its barrel 4" shorter it was faster over the chronograph.

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PROBABLY A WEE BIT TIGHTER FIT IN THE HAWKEN THAT GAVE A BIT MORE COMPRESSION.FIRING THE OTHER RIFLE WITH A THIN PAPER SHIM BETWEEN PATCH AND BALL MIGHT HAVEE BROUGHT IT UP TO THE OTHER RIFLES PERFORMANCE.
I WAS AMAZED AT THE DIFFERENCE IN VERY TIGHTER GOUPS I GOT BY INCREASING THE COMPRESSED PATCH THICKNESS BY ABOUT .005 WHICH IS ALMOST NOTHING.

DUTCH

Dr5x said:

PROBABLY A WEE BIT TIGHTER FIT IN THE HAWKEN THAT GAVE A BIT MORE COMPRESSION.FIRING THE OTHER RIFLE WITH A THIN PAPER SHIM BETWEEN PATCH AND BALL MIGHT HAVEE BROUGHT IT UP TO THE OTHER RIFLES PERFORMANCE.
I WAS AMAZED AT THE DIFFERENCE IN VERY TIGHTER GOUPS I GOT BY INCREASING THE COMPRESSED PATCH THICKNESS BY ABOUT .005 WHICH IS ALMOST NOTHING.

DUTCH

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THE GUY IN GERMANY HAD SOME PROBLEMS BUT NOWHERE IN THE COUNTRY WERE THINGS MUCH BETTER. I UNDERSTAND THAT BY LAW ALL RANGES THERE HAVE TO BE WALLED IN TO KEEP THE ERRANT PROJECTILE INSIDE. EHEY WOULD HAVE ODD EXPERIENCES WITH CROSS WIND FIRING SITUATIONS..


DUTCH

In the 80's I bought 2 .54 cabelas hawkins, consecutive serial #'s. One fer me one fer pop. They were both shooters but they liked a much different load than each other. Should have been easier with the consecutive #'s ???

azmntman said:

In the 80's I bought 2 .54 cabelas hawkins, consecutive serial #'s. One fer me one fer pop. They were both shooters but they liked a much different load than each other. Should have been easier with the consecutive #'s ???

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THE NOON WHISTLE OR QUITTING TIME MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED BETWEEN THOSE TWO CONSECUTIVE NUMBERS.

DUTCH

Yes. I got a Corolla that was made at noon on a weds tho

Dutch,

"For several years I have been seeking a method to demonstrate andexplhin TOLERANCES.
I have been told not to wear the same shoes everyday or my feet would soon cease to resemble feet."

Your shoe analogy is the best example that I have seen to explain the differences in shooting.

I do have your writings and re-read them periodically as a re-fresher.

One aspect of shooting that is rarely mentioned is the mental aspect. Shooting is 90% mental.
If your mind is wandering around, you are not going to shoot well.

FishDFly said:

Dutch,

"For several years I have been seeking a method to demonstrate andexplhin TOLERANCES.
I have been told not to wear the same shoes everyday or my feet would soon cease to resemble feet."

Your shoe analogy is the best example that I have seen to explain the differences in shooting.

I do have your writings and re-read them periodically as a re-fresher.

One aspect of shooting that is rarely mentioned is the mental aspect. Shooting is 90% mental.
If your mind is wandering around, you are not going to shoot well.

Click to expand...

THAT'S the advantage of "Follow Through" as I have explained in my book. Aim as carefully as possible. Fire and then re aim exactly as before before getting up to see how you did. If you don't do this simple trick your subconscious mind will be beginning to think about getting up before and during your firing.
I have seen more people improve their groups by doing that than almost any other method.
I thought I had invented it but learned it was a practice in use years before I picked up a rifle.
It's a hard thing to convince some people to try it.
Dutch Schoultz

Dr5x said:

THAT'S the advantage of "Follow Through" as I have explained in my book. Aim as carefully as possible. Fire and then re aim exactly as before before getting up to see how you did. If you don't do this simple trick your subconscious mind will be beginning to think about getting up before and during your firing.
I have seen more people improve their groups by doing that than almost any other method.
I thought I had invented it but learned it was a practice in use years before I picked up a rifle.
It's a hard thing to convince some people to try it.
Dutch Schoultz

Click to expand...

Agree, "Follow Through" is even more important when shooting flintlocks, especially pistols.