Aqua fortis on its own or add tannic acid?

I will be working on my first expensive project shortly. It is a .54 colonial rifle by Jim Kibler. I would like to see some results of others work with just aquafortis and also with Quafortis + Tannic Acis. Also curious of pros/Cons between the two..

Best Rgards
Bryon Knapp

AF works on the tannins in a piece of maple. Tannic acid adds more tannins. It will not bring out figure that's not there.
It's a little more work, however. It must be rubbed back to bring out the curl. Sometimes it can turn the wood black..... don't panic, just rub it back to a color you want, then finish.

Flintandsteel said:

AF works on the tannins in a piece of maple. Tannic acid adds more tannins. It will not bring out figure that's not there.
It's a little more work, however. It must be rubbed back to bring out the curl. Sometimes it can turn the wood black..... don't panic, just rub it back to a color you want, then finish.

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what is the benefit of using t he tannic acid? The wood is highly figured, im not expecting to making a silk purses from sows ears.... i was just wondering about the differences between the two processes.

kingsax26 said:

what is the benefit of using t he tannic acid? The wood is highly figured, im not expecting to making a silk purses from sows ears.... i was just wondering about the differences between the two processes.

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Some people like real high contrast in the curl, so they use the tannic acid with the aqua fortis to make the dark stripes almost black.

Since you are building Kibler's Colonial rifle and likely using his tannic acid and aqua fortis you might want to watch these two videos that clearly show the different results you get.

Aqua Fortis Only




Tannic Acid with Aqua Fortis




It's a matter of personal preference.

I'm not a fan. Nor am I a fan of "rubbing it back". Aqua fortis is all that is required to make an authentic stock color.

Hi Byron,
Here is a demonstration for you. The first 2 photos show a maple stock stained with aqua fortis (ferric nitrate and water) and then blushed with heat and wet with water to show the color and figure. The second 2 photos show the same stock after shaping that was first painted with strong tea (weak tannic acid) and then with aqua fortis, blushed and wetted. You can see the curl is more vivid but the dark color is almost black. The final photo shows the finished gun, which came out nice and the tea enhanced the vague curl, but the color range in the wood is low despite the high contrast. Tannic acid will bring out the figure but it may turn the darkest hues almost black, which may not be the most desirable. Moreover, if you use tannic acid powder in solution, you may find it necessary to rub back the stock extensively or it will be too dark. That rubbing will enhance the contrast in the figure but it may turn the darkest portions almost black and you can lose the "cat's eye" shimmer in the wood from multiple layers of different colors. Basically, you end up with dark, dark red-brown ( almost black), and medium to light red brown, with nothing in between.






dave

I used aqua fortis and a lye wash to neutralize the acid, which also tends to add red tones to the color. The finish is homemade cooked linseed oil varnish, which added a bit of amber to the final color.

Oh, come on. Don't tease us. Show us a picture of the entire rifle. I like the color I see. That is a nice touch to make the tip of the ramrod concave, probably not necessary since wood is softer than lead,but nice none the less.

Grenadier1758 said:

Oh, come on. Don't tease us. Show us a picture of the entire rifle. I like the color I see. That is a nice touch to make the tip of the ramrod concave, probably not necessary since wood is softer than lead,but nice none the less.

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That's the only pics I've got of it. The top pic is one I took with an ailing digital camera, and the bottom pic Track took to add to their site when it was listed for sale.

I think you did quite well to bring out the curl in the forestock. Nice work.

Every piece of wood is going to be a little bit different too. If Jim shipped the scrap to you, you should do a bunch of experiments with different concoctions to see what you like the best. You also have to remember that the final color and contrast won't be known until the topvarnish coat is on as well, though you can get close with something to wet it, like water or alcohol (depending on the carrier for your stains---use something different).

Though it gets very little air time here (I'm glad to see it was mentioned though) using lye as a neutralizing agent is another variable that's worth experimenting with. Baking soda and household ammonia don't change colors all that much, but lye definitely does. I struggled mightily with my last build to find just the right color, and once I used lye (on about my 20th iteration) that's what did it for me.

I find experimenting with finish concoctions to be among the must fun parts of building.

If you don't have scrap from the EXACT stock blank, you can use lumber yard wood from the same species. Your final test can be done in the barrel channel. Just remember that red maple is decidedly different than sugar maple. Definitely NOT the same species.

I recieved my rifle today....man oh man is the wood nice! still dont know how I want to finish it though

kingsax26 said:

I received my rifle today....man, oh man is the wood nice! Still, don't know how I want to finish it though

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I never worry about the color the stock will take on. It will color depending on the minerals in the soil where it grew and the stain used. I've always used aqua fortis with a lye (Red Devil) wash to neutralize the acid. Most finishes will have an amber tone, which accentuates the red tones on the stained wood.

If all is beautiful as the wood you will get a wonderful rifle...
We can't get that kind of wood here and only walnut (nice french walnut but walnut anyways) or beechwood (kits Ardesa/Traditions), the flamed maple is very difficult to find and it is the most luxurious wood for us...

Just be carefull with the nitric acid and the heater...

Erwan said:

If all is beautiful as the wood you will get a wonderful rifle...
We can't get that kind of wood here and only walnut (nice french walnut but walnut anyways) or beechwood (kits Ardesa/Traditions), the flamed maple is very difficult to find and it is the most luxurious wood for us...

Just be carefull with the nitric acid and the heater...

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we are fortunate indeed, the rifle is back in its box . it is goin to be a few weeks until i can start to build it. Fortunatley, the wood looks like that from butt to tip...... one of the nicest ive seen

Some day i will learn how to import photos.
In the mean time, I finished the same rifle.
I used aqua fortis and after I used a little laurel Lancaster maple stain to bring out a bit more red.
I like the look. Did upgrade to Kibler's Premium curly maple stock, glad I did, magnificent piece of wood

Kilted, save yourself some aggravation and get a free account with imgbb.com. You can upload pics straight from your phone or computer, then just share the links on forums like this.
This is what I did after getting frustrated with all the various upload modes on different gun sites.
Would love to see your finished rifle! I'm building a kibler kit now, myself.

You can but you don't have to use a photo hosting source to post pictures on our forum. I don't bother with them any more now that the Forum's software has been updated.

If your on the forum with a system that can "Copy" and "Paste" and you can open the picture, you can Copy and Paste it into your post on the forum as long as it isn't too large.
You can also use the blue "Upload a File" button and navagate to the picture and then "Open" it.

Follow this link to find out how to post a picture on the forum. Also, read the second post in the link to learn a method of reducing the file size of the picture. Doing this can allow you to post many pictures in your post without going over the file size limit.


https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/posting-a-picture-on-the-forum.115183/

Zonie said:

You can but you don't have to use a photo hosting source to post pictures on our forum. I don't bother with them any more now that the Forum's software has been updated.

If your on the forum with a system that can "Copy" and "Paste" and you can open the picture, you can Copy and Paste it into your post on the forum as long as it isn't too large.
You can also use the blue "Upload a File" button and navagate to the picture and then "Open" it.

Follow this link to find out how to post a picture on the forum. Also, read the second post in the link to learn a method of reducing the file size of the picture. Doing this can allow you to post many pictures in your post without going over the file size limit.


https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/posting-a-picture-on-the-forum.115183/

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agreed , its just too darn eazsy to load freom your own computer