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Zouave loads?

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shortstart

36 Cal.
Joined
Jul 15, 2012
Messages
174
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36
Location
Western, Pa.
After many years I have obtained another Zouave rife . My usual load was the recommended 60 grains of 2F. I shot .577 balls with 70 grains of 2F and it shot fine. Just wondering what other Zouave owners have tried in the way of loads. Being by nature, a tinker and looking to try something new. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
 
I used to use the Lee Target Minie “trash can” with 57-60 grains of 2f. The minie was 470 grains. I lost my mold during Hurricane Katrina. I believe Lee no longer makes the mold. I believe another company make a similar minie mold, but I can’t recall who it is right now. The load and minie were pretty accurate for what it is. I recall getting 3” groups at 50 yards and 5”-6” miles at 100 yards on a good day.
Ron

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I used to use the Lee Target Minie “trash can” with 57-60 grains of 2f. The minie was 470 grains. I lost my mold during Hurricane Katrina. I believe Lee no longer makes the mold. I believe another company make a similar minie mold, but I can’t recall who it is right now. The load and minie were pretty accurate for what it is. I recall getting 3” groups at 50 yards and 5”-6” miles at 100 yards on a good day.
Ron

View attachment 18975
I have one of those molds; read somewhere years ago that they made a good bullet. Never used it, but nice to know it's there when I want to cast up something new/different. If they don't make it anymore, can only assume there was no demand for it. Wonder if any others have comments to make about it? Thanks.
 
Minié/Burton balls often, even typically, do a bit better with 3f powder. I use pretty small charges compared to the 60 to 65 grain U.S. service charge, let alone the 70gr. Confederate service charge.

For my .58, I don't have my data available, but for my .69 I'm using a .685 raw-cast, lube-dipped 535-gr. wadcutter bullet backed by about 50 to 55 grains of 3f. I shoot 2f with roundball in the smooth-bore, but again, no where near the 110-120gr. service load of 2f!
Your shoulder, your rifle, your choice. I just don't need to punish myself with a full-house load, and truth be told, I'd probably get a detached retina! :confused:;)
 
If you want good data on what it can really do, you need to ask that question on the North South Skirmish Association board. Many of us shoot them in competition.

I have one that I've just started to work up and it so far is shooting 2in groups at 50yd with 42g 3f Swiss and a 579 RCBS Hogdon.

The mold name previous posters were looking for is Rapine Trashcan, the Lee did almost identical. Rapine is no longer in business but Moose Molds has taken up that slack. You can find a link on the NSSA main web page.
 
Its been 35+ years since I had a miroku zouave. I’m pretty sure I used to load 90 gr of ff behind a mini. Mainly because I liked deer hunting. I never could get what I’d call tack driver accuracy out of it, so sold it and moved on. The best that old piece could do was 2-3” @ 50 and 5-6” @ 100 no matter what variables I used.
 
True enough, but I tried loads all the way from 50 thru 90 gr without much difference ingroup size. And also, back in those days there wasnt a lot of advice to go by. Mostly what I could gather from the DGW catalouge.
 
Right there is most likely the problem. Minies don't respond too well to high charges.

In one of my old BP ML books (Fadala's ?) it showed some photos of a minie shot, breaking the wire for to catch the photo at high speed. It was showing what effects of high powder charges had on it and you could see how the skirt was blown well out of proportion and distorted.
 
The recommended/historical load for original and reproduction Zouaves (and other .58 caliber military rifled muskets) is 60 grains FFg under the .577 conical.

You can, of course, work up heavier/more accurate loads.
Only use FFg or Fg powder. If you use Pyrodex only use the RS or CTG grades.
Do not use FFg or FFFFg powder or the "P" greade Pyrodex.

Don't exceed 120 grains (2 grains per caliber) FFg/RS. With Fg/CTG you can probably go 10% higher (up to 130 grains) without excessive pressures.
 
Here's the load I use in my Enfield with bore size .575.

.575 RCBS Hogdon, pure lead
40g 3f Swiss
RWS caps
Beexwax/lard 60/40
This is a sub 2moa gun/load combination.

I have several Zouaves in my possession for our Scout project and one personal one. The Scout guns all shoot right at 3moa with little load development and I've only started on my personal one. It's showing promise to shoot as good as the Enfield using the same bullet but in .579.

If you're really interest in how accurate these guns can be, hang out with us at the North South Skirmish Association where we shoot them in competition.
 
My son is looking at an old Navy Arms made by Zoli .58cal Zouave rifle. Serial number is 21xxx. His research is it's a 1977 based on "AC" being stamped on the barrel. 2 bands, has a patchbox. I'd say it's in 7-8/10 considering its age, but the bore looked good.

What's the going rate for these? What's a steal, what's a ripoff in terms of pricing?

575213 or 575213 OS and 60 gr FFG . Got two old Zouaves from the early 60's with Zoli barrels and both shoot this load as good as I can hold .
 
My son is looking at an old Navy Arms made by Zoli .58cal Zouave rifle. Serial number is 21xxx. His research is it's a 1977 based on "AC" being stamped on the barrel. 2 bands, has a patchbox. I'd say it's in 7-8/10 considering its age, but the bore looked good.

What's the going rate for these? What's a steal, what's a ripoff in terms of pricing?

Fair market as described is about $425ish.
 
For target work out to 100 yards try 40-45 grains of FFF with a sized target minnie.
 
The gun hes looking at is .58 cal. Its rifled but looks like 3 band shallow rifling. Hes gonna make an offer on it next week.

What minie balls to buy? I've only ever shot patched roundball out of our traditional muzzleloaders. I've read 60gr 2f powder is good. Do you slather the minie balls with lube(we have bore butter and mink oil)? Tips on lubing??? Does anything go between the powder and the bullet(I dont think so, right)? How did they do it during the civil war, with paper cartridges? Did the paper itself ever go down the barrel?
 
The gun hes looking at is .58 cal. Its rifled but looks like 3 band shallow rifling. Hes gonna make an offer on it next week.

What minie balls to buy? I've only ever shot patched roundball out of our traditional muzzleloaders. I've read 60gr 2f powder is good. Do you slather the minie balls with lube(we have bore butter and mink oil)? Tips on lubing??? Does anything go between the powder and the bullet(I dont think so, right)? How did they do it during the civil war, with paper cartridges? Did the paper itself ever go down the barrel?

Ok here we go again- For best accuracy out of a musket and minies.
1) Pure lead only minies sized to .001 under bore size. Most "Zouaves" (1863 Remington Contracts) have bores in the 580 range, doesn't matter what's stamped, measure and verify. If you don't cast, go here for quality minies-
http://www.lodgewood.com/Bullets_c_7.html
Be sure you know your bore size for best results!

2) Powder charge 40-45g 3f, ignore the "service charge" you want to get shooting accurately, minies don't respond well to large charges. NOTHING between charge and minie. Some like to fill the base with lube, but I've dug more than a few out of the backstop with base full of lube. If the lube and powder charge are in balance, no need to fill the base and ruin bullet consistency.

3) Use beeswax/xyz lube. XYZ=lard, crisco, tallow, etc. Avoid "bore butter" and anything petroleum based. I dip lube my minies base only to the top of the rings.

During the War, they bit off the top of the cartridge, poured the powder, rammed the minie home, no paper, it's an extra step. HOWEVER, with Enfields and the Pritchett bullets, the cartridge formed a paper patching and as such the bullet wasn't unwrapped, but rammed as is down the bore. That only works with Prichett style bullets.

If you're serious about working up this rifle, check out the North South Skirmish Association (I'm a member). We compete with Civil War era guns, including artillery (yes, I'm on a rifled howitzer crew). We spent lots of time experimenting with these guns getting them to shoot to their potential. There's lots of misinformation out there from folklore to reenactorisms that will lead to frustration. If you're in the eastern US, then look us up, there are lots of members willing to help out a noobie.
 
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