My First Smoothbore

Adam Hofmeister · Nov 12, 2019

Hello,
So I am really excited about getting my first smoothbore. I'm thinking it will be a custom build. What sparked my interest was that I love hunting with my paps hawken for deer in PA and have taken several with it. It's my absolute favorite. However I'm dying to have a gun that I can do everything with so the idea of a 62 caliber for squirrels to bear is awesome. I have a few things here that I would love some opinions on.
I'm not going full blown reenactor here but I'd like the gun to have a story and period correctness. I've done some research but not enough to place an order for a custom build to get the specs right. How does this sound.."Appalachian woodsman that has a trusted smoothbore. It is his only gun and he took it with him when he volunteered with militia to march on the French at Ft Duquesne with braddock and survived the defeat." Stretch? What would this gun be? Would it have a rear sight? I've read a bit now on guns of the American frontier and while a FDC sounds great it seems like a gun that wasn't very common. For some reason military guns like the Bess or Charleville do not interest me.
Has anyone dealt with Sitting Fox they do custom builds and I called the guy seemed legit and the guns on his site look good. I'm willing to pay for a quality build im in no position to do a kit. I'm away with the army and would love it in my basement ready to go when I get back. Just gathering info here I'm super excited and probably will have more questions.
Thanks for the input
Adam

Grenadier1758 · Nov 12, 2019

First off, get Grinslade's book " Flintlock Fowlers". That will provide a look at what might have been available at the time. Look especially at the Carolina fowlers.

For your persona, I would think an East Side of Appalachians farmer hired on with his wagon and team to carry supplies for Braddock's March. Much like Daniel Boone. Certainly a wagon driver is not as exciting sounding as a militia participant, but more likely to have been there and survived with his gun.

Try Tip Curtis to see what sorts of fowling guns he has in stock. Try Clay Smith to see what his backlog is. Look at the classified ads within this forum. A good choice might show up.

smo · Nov 12, 2019

I’ll second the mention for Tip Curtis, it’ll be had too beat his quality and price....

615 654 4445

Thank you for your service..

shane a gress · Nov 12, 2019

Adam
You will enjoy the 62 to hunt with. I have used a FDC for many years, taken lots of PA deer and a wheelbarrow load of squirrels. I haven't crossed the Turkey off my list yet.

Brian Gibbs · Nov 12, 2019

Hey! I too am recently new to smoothbores. You will find SO much info here and really good people with ALOT of knowledge. Be careful, however. This forum and the amount of information is as addictive as flintlocks. Particularly smoothbores!

By the way, Thank you for your service! I too am a vet! 1st ID, 1st ENGRS!

tenngun · Nov 14, 2019

Tip Curtis is A-1
I have bought from Sitting Fox for a kit and was very happy with the service and no complaint about quality. Have nothing but good to say for Ray.
That was a kit however. He has subcontractors to do his builds and in fairness I have heard some complain about the fit and finish on some of his guns.

Belleville · Nov 14, 2019

Adam Hofmeister said:
Hello,
So I am really excited about getting my first smoothbore. I'm thinking it will be a custom build. What sparked my interest was that I love hunting with my paps hawken for deer in PA and have taken several with it. It's my absolute favorite. However I'm dying to have a gun that I can do everything with so the idea of a 62 caliber for squirrels to bear is awesome. I have a few things here that I would love some opinions on.
I'm not going full blown reenactor here but I'd like the gun to have a story and period correctness. I've done some research but not enough to place an order for a custom build to get the specs right. How does this sound.."Appalachian woodsman that has a trusted smoothbore. It is his only gun and he took it with him when he volunteered with militia to march on the French at Ft Duquesne with braddock and survived the defeat." Stretch? What would this gun be? Would it have a rear sight? I've read a bit now on guns of the American frontier and while a FDC sounds great it seems like a gun that wasn't very common. For some reason military guns like the Bess or Charleville do not interest me.
Has anyone dealt with Sitting Fox they do custom builds and I called the guy seemed legit and the guns on his site look good. I'm willing to pay for a quality build im in no position to do a kit. I'm away with the army and would love it in my basement ready to go when I get back. Just gathering info here I'm super excited and probably will have more questions.
Thanks for the input
Adam

Adam, You are obviously young and the weight of your smoothbore would not be bothersome. Don't want to spoil it for you, but some day you will hopefully yet old. At that time the weight of your gun may be a concern. Plan accordingly and pick a lighter weight gun. Also don't count on even a custom build being ready to go out of the box. Probably will need to be sighted in and maybe a few other things. Good Luck and thanks for your service.

Adam Hofmeister · Nov 14, 2019

Hey guys thanks for all the replies. I have flinlock Fowler's on the way I'm hoping that's a good reference. The biggest problem is I still don't know what I want. I'm just trying to avoid buying the first thing called "English Fowler" or "Fusil de Chasse" without knowing what one is actually supposed to look like and what time period it would fit. I definitely don't expect it to be fully ready out of the box I definitely understand that loads need to be tested and tweaked (learned this lesson over some years of missing deer and being astonished). I guess I meant range ready. I took a look into Tim Curtis and it seems like he might be out of my price range. I'm thinking $1800 max which might be wishful thinking for a build? The reason I was drawn to sitting fox was this seemed to be the price range on his site. However I guess I'd rather hunt for something used before I get something that would lack quality. It's tricky because I want something nice but it is still a hunting gun after all. Again thanks for all the replies.
Adam

dave_person · Nov 14, 2019

Hi Adam,
The photos below show what 18th century English fowlers should look like. They are a mix of originals and guns I've made based on originals. Ignore the bling and focus on the shapes of the stocks and hardware.

dave

dave_person · Nov 14, 2019

Hi,
The following photos show some New England fowlers with strong French fowling gun influence.

The photos in this and the previous post show you what these guns are supposed to look like.

dave

Adam Hofmeister · Nov 14, 2019

Wow thanks definitely some awesome looking guns so my untrained eye sees.
No rear sight- how hards that going to make ball accuracy? (Not going to change my mind just curious)
Single trigger- what would dictate the "flaired" versus the "straight" trigger?
Lock- not sure how to describe it but I think I get how it's supposed to look
Stock- brass plate on the butt, no compartment like a hawken, French influence would be more wood and "less straight"?
Barrel- octagon to round, can't tell how long but pretty damn long, ramrod exposed 3/4 of the way down
Serpant/dragon design I read in the book guns of the early frontier by car Russel that this didn't occur until 1805 but I see them everywhere

I put in quotes the terms I don't know how to use lol.Definitely a huge help being able to visualize them.

brazosland · Nov 14, 2019

A Caywood Wilson’s gun would be a good choice also.

Your persona could say he recovered the gun from the body of a killed Indian raider. Great guns, historically correct and English design, but with the more pleasing lines of the FDC.

Daryl Crawford · Nov 14, 2019

Track of the Wolf may have a kit in your price range. I was looking at them before I stumbled on a used fowler from a member here. You may want to decide if you want a kit or just shop for a used gun. I think, based on my shopping around, that $1000-1200 can buy you a lot of gun.

hanshi · Nov 14, 2019

A 20ga (.62) is my choice for bore size. Mine is plain, utilitarian but has a rear sight; I love it.

Britsmoothy · Nov 15, 2019

I just drooled all down my shirt!

B

jbwilliams3 · Nov 15, 2019

Adam,

Enjoy the book and also take with a grain of salt every recommendation you receive. The advice you heed will depend on what you’re looking to accomplish. Some don’t care what the gun looks like – they just like the old technology and approximating the experience of our ancestors. Others prefer something a little more historically based, but don’t get caught up in details and might make exceptions for practicality. Nothing wrong with either of those options, by the way, but it’s not always readily apparent what someone’s goal is. For example, when I was a teenager, my old family friend encouraged me to get a Pedersoli and I was led to believe it was the cat’s meow. Then I examined original guns up close and held guns made by craftsman who more closely replicated old guns and I realized that there was a vast disparity.

Dave Person is one of the few gunsmiths who go to great pains to replicate historical details that others would never bother with, so his advice and examples are golden. Because of the readily available parts and the cost of most people’s labor, a true English fowling piece (whether an export quality or not) would be comparably high and finding someone (like Dave Persons) is more difficult than finding someone who can build – say – a colonial restock or Carolina gun. Plenty of folks out there can get you a “not exactly historical but close enough” so do your research and find what you really want. Carolina Guns (i.e. English trade guns) are a cost effective gun (then as today). Check out Clay Smith and Mike Brooks’ websites. You sometimes see pictures of American composite guns and they can really be odd and sometimes charming in their own right, especially guns cobbled together for wartime use. Jim Mullins’ “Of Sorts for Provincials” shows a weird American frankengun that has a recycled dog lock from the 17th century. All that to say, there’s usually a bit more leeway on American stocked fowling pieces than their more refined Euro counterparts.

James

Atticus69 · Nov 17, 2019

jbwilliams3 said:
Adam,

Enjoy the book and also take with a grain of salt every recommendation you receive. The advice you heed will depend on what you’re looking to accomplish. Some don’t care what the gun looks like – they just like the old technology and approximating the experience of our ancestors. Others prefer something a little more historically based, but don’t get caught up in details and might make exceptions for practicality. Nothing wrong with either of those options, by the way, but it’s not always readily apparent what someone’s goal is. For example, when I was a teenager, my old family friend encouraged me to get a Pedersoli and I was led to believe it was the cat’s meow. Then I examined original guns up close and held guns made by craftsman who more closely replicated old guns and I realized that there was a vast disparity.

Dave Person is one of the few gunsmiths who go to great pains to replicate historical details that others would never bother with, so his advice and examples are golden. Because of the readily available parts and the cost of most people’s labor, a true English fowling piece (whether an export quality or not) would be comparably high and finding someone (like Dave Persons) is more difficult than finding someone who can build – say – a colonial restock or Carolina gun. Plenty of folks out there can get you a “not exactly historical but close enough” so do your research and find what you really want. Carolina Guns (i.e. English trade guns) are a cost effective gun (then as today). Check out Clay Smith and Mike Brooks’ websites. You sometimes see pictures of American composite guns and they can really be odd and sometimes charming in their own right, especially guns cobbled together for wartime use. Jim Mullins’ “Of Sorts for Provincials” shows a weird American frankengun that has a recycled dog lock from the 17th century. All that to say, there’s usually a bit more leeway on American stocked fowling pieces than their more refined Euro counterparts.

James

Adam,
James' advice and comments are dead on. You'll have to balance price with history, function, beauty, etc. I have a Caywood gun (NW trade) and love it. He makes an earlier gun that would be appropriate for your desires. Clay Smith does a gun that is a reproduction of one actually in a painting contemporaneous with the time period you are interested in and his guns look very nice and I've never seen any negative comments on his work, though have no personal experience with it (hope that can change someday!). Dave's guns look beautiful! I've never seen anything negative about Mike Brooks work so there are 4 great resources for you. Lots of wisdom and experience on this forum! Looks like you couldn't go wrong with any of them.

Grenadier1758 · Nov 17, 2019

I think we too often forget that back in the period, gun makers built to a pattern. If one of us could walk into an 18th century gun maker's shop in western Virginia or North Carolina and order a 5 pound sterling fowling gun, we would receive a gun that looks like, but wouldn't be identical to the gun from another maker. The main difference would be in the lock (most likely imported from England rather than forged in the shop), The barrel would be forge welded rather than the modern deep drilled and reamed from a billet. Other than these The gun received may look very much like the Carolina pattern fowling guns pictured in Grinslade's book, but it wouldn't be identical to any of them.

What I am saying is that the gun you purchase doesn't have to be identical to a gun documented to the 18th century to meet the pattern requirements. Sure, avoid a Siler Germanic lock on a Carolina pattern gun, but such guns do exist if uncommon. Iron hardware is uncommon, but a few exist. Brass will tarnish nicely and will not cause game alerting reflections in the woods. Don't allow modern preconceived notions to drive your selection of a fowling gun such as barrel length or choke. Do prepare to enjoy a gun built more or less in accordance with the desired pattern (or school).

Do avoid the battlefield pickup scenario. For one to be on the battle field to be in the position to pickup a discarded firearm, one would likely be on the winning side and already in possession of a firearm. Besides in the early F&I war, the colonists weren't often on the winning side.

Toklo Etee · Nov 17, 2019

Adam,
If you are set on wanting a Flint smooth bore with a rear sight....the Carolina gun is a great option. The gun pictured was a Jack Brooks kit built by the late Dave Wagner.
One thing that you really need to consider is the barrel......both length & profile......the weight & balance of your gun will be determined by the barrel. Some barrels are really heavy because they do not taper......as to length....when you look at the images posted by Mr. Person.....notice the long graceful profile....most of these early guns have LONG barrels. Alot of guns sold have 42" barrels when the original guns they are said to copy have 44 , 46 & longer(a buddy of mine had a fusil fin built with a 54" barrel........it only weights 7 1/4 pounds) The Carolina gun I supplied pictures of has a 46" barrel and weights 5 1/2 pounds......I know this sounds like I am not picking but having the privilege of handling a few original guns really opened my eyes to how a gun should point and carry.....the barrel profile sets the tone for that.....good luck with your search......you will enjoy your new gun!
David

Brokennock · Nov 17, 2019

Adam, you have gotten much good advice. I'm not tech savvy enough to do it, but, I wonder if the pics Dave Person (when he shares info, I pay attention) can somehow be edited to form black and white silhouettes of the correct shapes, so one isn't distracted by all the artwork.
Also, there is no reason you can't have a sight put on your fowling piece. There is some evidence it was done. The only (possible) negative difference I can see it making is that it will disqualify the gun from being shot in most trade gun matches, but that may not matter to you. (Not sure why this rule is in place as the Type-G Trade Gun was very common and had a rear sight)

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