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Marinekayak

40 Cal
Joined
Apr 18, 2019
Messages
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First rounds down range in about 30 years for a 1970's vintage Lyman/Armi Sao Paolo Enfield musketoon. I found it in my Dads basement pulled a stuck bullet a generally cleaned it up. 60 gr of FFg and some cast minnies from my LGS. Not sure of mold or weight but they looked like lyman 460gr. Fired 10 rounds straight one group at 50 yards with 6 o'clock hold. No cleaning between shots.
IMG_20191011_183711.jpg
I was not trying to develop a load just fun shooting. Used bore butter as lube. Looks like there is some potential . Some questions though.
1. Lube the cavity of the minie or just the grooves?
2. Any ideas to source a new rear sight ladder? Instead of raising the front sight post my Dad filed down the rear. Tough to get a good sight picture.
 
Looks good, that accuracy should translate to longer ranges.

I lube the grooves, I don't like lube touching the powder but many people swear they have been putting a finger dab of Crisco in the Minie base for decades, whatever works.

I would think a current Pedersoli Musketoon rear sight ladder should fit.
 
I lube my ‘minnie’ cavities and load 60g fff. I feel that the bullet isn’t going to sit on the powder long enough to get the powder wet. Loading is easy, however, I have yet to achieve a group like that at 50m. You seem to have found the right recipe for your piece. As Stan says ‘whatever works’. It would be interesting to know if those two low shots were the fouling or warm-up shots?
 
For parts go to either Lodgewood or S&S. Their links can be found in the Sutler section of the North South Skirmish Association home page. We shoot these critters in competition and the musketoon has a good rep of being quite accurate. I know mine is a muzzleloading laser on the range.

Best minie I've found in my musketoon is the RCBS Hogdon sized to bore. Powder charge is 42g 3f Old Eynsford, RWS caps, beeswax/lard lube. NOTHING in the base. This load in my gun is sub 2moa. If you aren't into casting, CWBulletman is on the Lodgewood site and you can get minies of different types to try. Many get good results with the Lyman 575213.

Having to put lube in the base is symptomatic of powder charge not in balance with the amount of lube on the bullet and of poor performance of the lube. In the Scout project this summer, I ran one Zouave over 50 rounds straight with no wiping and no loss of accuracy. Load was RCBS Hogdon, beeswax/lard lube, 45gr 3f Schutzen, Schutzen caps, NO LUBE IN BASE. One of my fellow instructors was running MCM lube and was having to wipe about every 15 shots due to fouling.
 
Stan I think the low shots were me not being smooth on the trigger and pulling the shots. the way the sights are I had a real hard time being consistent on them. Loading was a breeze first shot to last for 10 shots. Easy thumb start for each minie and easy push with the rod to seat. The bullets werent sized or lubed so i guessing .575 straight from the mold . I want to start casting since I am hooked on bp now. Think i'll start with the lyman 575213. I probably get some precast of different types and sizes to try first. Next thing I'll be driving over to Winchester for the NSSA. Smh.
 
For parts go to either Lodgewood or S&S. Their links can be found in the Sutler section of the North South Skirmish Association home page. We shoot these critters in competition and the musketoon has a good rep of being quite accurate. I know mine is a muzzleloading laser on the range.

Best minie I've found in my musketoon is the RCBS Hogdon sized to bore. Powder charge is 42g 3f Old Eynsford, RWS caps, beeswax/lard lube. NOTHING in the base. This load in my gun is sub 2moa. If you aren't into casting, CWBulletman is on the Lodgewood site and you can get minies of different types to try. Many get good results with the Lyman 575213.

Having to put lube in the base is symptomatic of powder charge not in balance with the amount of lube on the bullet and of poor performance of the lube. In the Scout project this summer, I ran one Zouave over 50 rounds straight with no wiping and no loss of accuracy. Load was RCBS Hogdon, beeswax/lard lube, 45gr 3f Schutzen, Schutzen caps, NO LUBE IN BASE. One of my fellow instructors was running MCM lube and was having to wipe about every 15 shots due to fouling.

Dave, having read your post a couple of times, I have revised my plans for winter fettling. Having ‘inadvertently’ slugged my barrel, I feel the need to size my Lyman cast bullets down a few thou’,(they are very tight at the muzzle) lighten my load and stop putting lube in the base.

Thank you.

John
 
Not really. I'm also experimenting with tallow, but it's going to be hard to improve on
 
So not to start a new thread but this rifle seems accurate enough to play with. So next question. Has anyone worked up hunting loads for musketoons? Whitetail loads specifically. If 60gr 2ff is a target load how high can you push a minie before you start losing accuracy? Also, has anyone had luck with maxiballs in musketoons?
 
For parts go to either Lodgewood or S&S. Their links can be found in the Sutler section of the North South Skirmish Association home page. We shoot these critters in competition and the musketoon has a good rep of being quite accurate. I know mine is a muzzleloading laser on the range.

Best minie I've found in my musketoon is the RCBS Hogdon sized to bore. Powder charge is 42g 3f Old Eynsford, RWS caps, beeswax/lard lube. NOTHING in the base. This load in my gun is sub 2moa. If you aren't into casting, CWBulletman is on the Lodgewood site and you can get minies of different types to try. Many get good results with the Lyman 575213.

Having to put lube in the base is symptomatic of powder charge not in balance with the amount of lube on the bullet and of poor performance of the lube. In the Scout project this summer, I ran one Zouave over 50 rounds straight with no wiping and no loss of accuracy. Load was RCBS Hogdon, beeswax/lard lube, 45gr 3f Schutzen, Schutzen caps, NO LUBE IN BASE. One of my fellow instructors was running MCM lube and was having to wipe about every 15 shots due to fouling.
Some believe that the lube thing actually CAUSES and attracts fouling...
 
So not to start a new thread but this rifle seems accurate enough to play with. So next question. Has anyone worked up hunting loads for musketoons? Whitetail loads specifically. If 60gr 2ff is a target load how high can you push a minie before you start losing accuracy? Also, has anyone had luck with maxiballs in musketoons?
60gr 2fg black powder pushing a mini will totally floor a whitetail of any size! Within a reasonable hunting range that is (<100 yds).
Walk
 
Let's put this into perspective.

It's already 58cal and soft lead. Essentially it's a 20ga slug gun. The minie design generally doesn't play nice with high charges.

My advice, find one of the old Lee "target minie" molds. It's a 58cal wadcutter that punches a clean 60cal hole all the way through. Next - PRACTICE and PRACTICE some more. Keep your shots to 100yds or less, cook venison to taste.
 
I agree practice practice practice... I can generally shoot at or near the mechanical accuracy of any rifle. I love to shoot. Once i get the sights fixed on this rifle if i cant get all the shots touching at 50 yards I'd be dissapointed. I don't expect sub moa groups at 1000 yards I have other tools for that. I usually hunt in thick woods and the 100 yard shot is the exception rather than the rule. As a shooter im in the " if i can see it i can hit it" group but as a hunter im in the "just because you can doesnt mean you should". As with any rifle i want to know its ballistic and accuracy limits and then hunt well within those limits. I've always shot black powder but lately i am really enjoying it. Im focused on pure shooting again and i love the challenge it brings.
 
I use a 500 gr minie and 60grs fffg in my musketoon, it flattened a big bodied buck here in North TX, he went about 25 yards. The exit was, to put it mildly, impressive. I wouldn't be afraid to use this load as far as I trust myself with issued iron sights...about 100ish yards.

I've heard it quoted here the standard charge of 60 grs and a minie was documented to shoot thru a horse in the civil war..is that good enough for you? When I got my first musketoon, about 10 years ago, I thought I needed a heavy load to hunt with it. Turns out 60 grs fffg works fine.
 
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