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Modern versus flintlock

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chuck-ia

45 Cal.
Joined
May 29, 2005
Messages
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I retired a few months ago, the boys and dealership got me a Henry single shot 20 gage, took it out a few times hunting, just not the same as a flintlock smooth bore or rifle, really enjoy my modern guns, (when I shoot them) just not the same as the flintlocks, seems I pay more attention, move slower, and really get into the hunt when toting a muzzleloader. Any body feel the same? chuck
 
Been there, done that..., modern stuff works great, it's all weather, variable chokes that simply screw-in..., or a rifle with fine optics, match hunting ammo, special trigger, jeweled action slicker than owl snot..., you're looking at that huge buck with a set of cross-hairs zero'd on his shoulder, while all the while being comfortable in that heated, elevated blind, where you were sitting using a sound gathering device and heard him coming 10 minutes before you could even see him, ...and he never knew what hit him from 400 yards away....

Or..., creeping through the woods, perhaps even in home made mocs, and reproduction clothing of a historic pattern, the outer layer smoked in hickory or oak smoke to hide my scent. Hold up next to an old Oak Tree, older than the existence of the United States. Use that tree to break up my outline, peering at what I thought I saw about as far as I can see through the woods, which is just about 40 yards as the trees are thick and many, with the wind sideways to me deflecting my scent away from what I think may be deer, as I cradle the flintlock under my armpit at the lock, to keep the light drizzle (which also helps hide my scent) from spoiling my priming powder in my lock. The small group of does that I confirm are now approaching, making no noise as they creep in a direction that will bring them toward me, and I level my rifle with the patched, lead .530 round ball, my forward arm against the tree supporting the rifle as I shoulder it, and pull the lock to half-cock, my body now in a slight crouch and forming almost a "tri-pod" position, very stead as the iron sights align in a "picture" on one of the large does, as she steps where the flight of the bullet will not be marred by twig nor old leaf clinging to a low branch. She goes only a short distance after the shot. Reload slowly, and give thanks.....

I will take the latter scenario. Life is too short (imho) not to choose the latter....:thumb:

LD
 
Been there, done that..., modern stuff works great, it's all weather, variable chokes that simply screw-in..., or a rifle with fine optics, match hunting ammo, special trigger, jeweled action slicker than owl snot..., you're looking at that huge buck with a set of cross-hairs zero'd on his shoulder, while all the while being comfortable in that heated, elevated blind, where you were sitting using a sound gathering device and heard him coming 10 minutes before you could even see him, ...and he never knew what hit him from 400 yards away....

Or..., creeping through the woods, perhaps even in home made mocs, and reproduction clothing of a historic pattern, the outer layer smoked in hickory or oak smoke to hide my scent. Hold up next to an old Oak Tree, older than the existence of the United States. Use that tree to break up my outline, peering at what I thought I saw about as far as I can see through the woods, which is just about 40 yards as the trees are thick and many, with the wind sideways to me deflecting my scent away from what I think may be deer, as I cradle the flintlock under my armpit at the lock, to keep the light drizzle (which also helps hide my scent) from spoiling my priming powder in my lock. The small group of does that I confirm are now approaching, making no noise as they creep in a direction that will bring them toward me, and I level my rifle with the patched, lead .530 round ball, my forward arm against the tree supporting the rifle as I shoulder it, and pull the lock to half-cock, my body now in a slight crouch and forming almost a "tri-pod" position, very stead as the iron sights align in a "picture" on one of the large does, as she steps where the flight of the bullet will not be marred by twig nor old leaf clinging to a low branch. She goes only a short distance after the shot. Reload slowly, and give thanks.....

I will take the latter scenario. Life is too short (imho) not to choose the latter....:thumb:

LD
Wow!
 
just not the same as a flintlock smooth bore or rifle, really enjoy my modern guns, (when I shoot them) just not the same as the flintlocks, seems I pay more attention, move slower, and really get into the hunt when toting a muzzleloader. Any body feel the same? chuck

I feel sorry for those that will never experience the "oneness" with nature that comes from hunting with a flintlock. The only thing that parallels it for me is traditional archery. Both not only offer a heightened sense of nature and ones place in it but, they transport me back in time creating a unique and complete experience.

I have been very lucky, I discovered this at a very early age.
 
Man, LoyalistDave, that blew me away! Well said and written! I can't wait to go out in Pa. muzzleloader season!
 
I'd use a flintlock if I could afford one.
As it is, I can only afford a percussion, so I shoot that.
Modern inlines? Thankee but no thankee.
I've never cared for them, and in Idaho, at least, modern inlines, 209 primers, and pelletized powders are specifically prohibited during the muzzleloader only sessons. If they can only be used in the general "any (legal) weapons" seasons, why bother?

I also want something bigger than .50 caliber should I go after Elk, Moose, or Black Bear.

Only a traditional sidelock using flint, Number 11 percussion caps, or musket caps and using loose powder and ball or conicals (no sabots - period - no matter the season. Just as fixed blade broadheads are required for archery, regardless if compound bow, recurve, longbow or crossbow or if during the archery season or during the general "all (legal) weapons" seasons) are allowed during Idaho's muzzleloading seasons. Scopes and any electronic devise (including lighted scopes) are also prohibited. Peep sights and globe front sights are allowed.) Scopes on a traditional side lock look funky, so I've no desire for that, either.

I need to get a new nipple for my .54 caliber T/C Hawken. Number 10 caps fit much better than number 11's on the nipple that came with it.
I'll probably get a musket cap nipple for it.
(shame, too. I have roughly 370 Number 10 percussion caps. Oh well. I guess I can use them for shooting paper at the range.)

Percussion arms are "traditional" and "historically accurate"/ "period correct" for the late fur trade era post 1840 or so.
So why stay home because I can't afford a flintlock rifle? The rain, slush, and snow may not be as much an issue with percussion caps as with a flintlock (one reason so many "mountainmen" bought new percussion arms or converted their flintlock arms to percussion when they could.) but I still have to get just as close for a shot as someone using a flinter.
(just as I have to get as close or closer for a shot when using my compound bow as someone using a recurve or long bow.
Ambushing game from the tree tops is "cheating" as far as I am concerned. (I'm also afraid of heights, and loathe ladders, thus I greatly prefer keeping my feet on solid ground. Even if that were not the case, I still wouldn't ambush from the tree tops.)
Ambushing from the tree tops takes a lot less skill than stalking, IMHO.
 
I certainly feel that way. Hunting with a flintlock makes you slow down, think more, choose your shots with care and I know its made me a better hunter. I just like everything about blackpowder. Possibles bags full of tools and powder and lead, patch knives, flints and whatever else, and having the woods to yourself when the orange clad hunters are done and gone home.
 
Definitely prefer my hunting done with a flintlock, it has even started to be preferred over my longbow.
That said, even my modern hunting guns aren't all that modern, shotguns and .22 rifles from the 1930s and 1940s with the exception of my Scout Rifle.
Never have had the "modern" hunting experience of L.D.'s 1st scenario of heated blinds and electronic spy devices. Wouldn't really want to. Certainly not interested in 400 yard shots on game, I prefer to hunt before pulling the trigger.
A flintlock, or traditional caplock, just seems more natural, which I thought hunting is supposed to be.
 
Been there, done that..., modern stuff works great, it's all weather, variable chokes that simply screw-in..., or a rifle with fine optics, match hunting ammo, special trigger, jeweled action slicker than owl snot..., you're looking at that huge buck with a set of cross-hairs zero'd on his shoulder, while all the while being comfortable in that heated, elevated blind, where you were sitting using a sound gathering device and heard him coming 10 minutes before you could even see him, ...and he never knew what hit him from 400 yards away....

Or..., creeping through the woods, perhaps even in home made mocs, and reproduction clothing of a historic pattern, the outer layer smoked in hickory or oak smoke to hide my scent. Hold up next to an old Oak Tree, older than the existence of the United States. Use that tree to break up my outline, peering at what I thought I saw about as far as I can see through the woods, which is just about 40 yards as the trees are thick and many, with the wind sideways to me deflecting my scent away from what I think may be deer, as I cradle the flintlock under my armpit at the lock, to keep the light drizzle (which also helps hide my scent) from spoiling my priming powder in my lock. The small group of does that I confirm are now approaching, making no noise as they creep in a direction that will bring them toward me, and I level my rifle with the patched, lead .530 round ball, my forward arm against the tree supporting the rifle as I shoulder it, and pull the lock to half-cock, my body now in a slight crouch and forming almost a "tri-pod" position, very stead as the iron sights align in a "picture" on one of the large does, as she steps where the flight of the bullet will not be marred by twig nor old leaf clinging to a low branch. She goes only a short distance after the shot. Reload slowly, and give thanks.....

I will take the latter scenario. Life is too short (imho) not to choose the latter....:thumb:

LD
Right on Dave. Do all my hunting on the ground in a leaf suit.
What an amazing feeling having deer 15 yards from you and they are unaware.
I have to admit there were times I just let them go on their way and still went home satisfied.

SM
 
Something else to go "creeping through the woods," carried along by the experience Loyalist Dave has had. Great, vivid sharing of your experience, Sir.

Carbon6 shared his experience as the "oneness" with nature that comes from hunting with a flintlock... transport me back in time creating a unique and complete experience. I have been very lucky, I discovered this at a very early age.
I discovered muzzleloading at a very late age, being only three months ago. I've not had any BP hunt experience. But I've definitely come close through these threads.

Brokennock has a unique preference "to hunt before pulling the trigger. A flintlock, or traditional caplock, just seems more natural, which I thought hunting is supposed to be."
Tonight, right before I read this thread, I finished reading Osborne Russell's Journal of a Trapper. Those nine years were absolutely filled with nature and the natural hunt. Amazing experiences, and the telling of his times as a fur trader and free trapper came across beautifully.

The meaningfulness of this type of hunting was really uniquely targeted when Sussexmuzlldr said, "...just let them go on their way and still went home satisfied." Wow. Yes to this, and to all the sharing.

I am grateful to have "experienced" so many hunts through your great stories, Gentlemen.
 
You've all ruined me, I'm such an outlier now. I really like the people I hunt with and yet none of them hunt Traditional Muzzzleloader. I jump out someplace with them and they uncase .308s .270s and a Lapua while I throw a buffalo bag over my shoulder and drag out a .54. New people who haven't met me before look at me like I'm dressed in a ballgown. One of the guys takes them off by the shoulder and explains how they should try not to Gawk at the old crazy guy with the muzzleloder.

They all feel obliged to tell new hunters stories of game I've killed. . . . Like an assurance "he really does hunt with that, no kidding, kills stuff and everything." Don't get me wrong these are great guys, good ethical hunters. But I always feel like they give the new people "The Talk" "Now he is going to seem strange, and his equipment is odd. . . . but he's never bitten anyone we know of"
 
You've all ruined me, I'm such an outlier now. I really like the people I hunt with and yet none of them hunt Traditional Muzzzleloader. I jump out someplace with them and they uncase .308s .270s and a Lapua while I throw a buffalo bag over my shoulder and drag out a .54. New people who haven't met me before look at me like I'm dressed in a ballgown. One of the guys takes them off by the shoulder and explains how they should try not to Gawk at the old crazy guy with the muzzleloder.

They all feel obliged to tell new hunters stories of game I've killed. . . . Like an assurance "he really does hunt with that, no kidding, kills stuff and everything." Don't get me wrong these are great guys, good ethical hunters. But I always feel like they give the new people "The Talk" "Now he is going to seem strange, and his equipment is odd. . . . but he's never bitten anyone we know of"
Give them a thrill Sean, go ahead and bite one of them.......
I get the same in deer camp. Our place is covered in mesquite and cedar, longest shot you are going to get is 75-100 yards anyway.
I see guys unpacking big bore shoulder busters with scopes big enough to see the rings of Saturn. Gotta laugh, they go home empty handed and I go home with meat in the cooler. You gotta know the deer and not spend too much time playing with the optics....
freaks them out when we sight in and I put 3 rounds on a 6" plate at 100, and the monster scoper takes 4 or 5 rounds to get on target. Then they cant get a deer in the scope cause it wont focus down enough for a short shot. Happens all too frequent.
 
I run into the same thing as Sean and Griz discussed when hunting with others who only use modern equipment. As surely as they ask me why I "disadvantage" myself with traditional archery gear or a flint or cap lock, I wonder as deeply why they many times say "it's all about the hunt" but then choose gear that says it's all about the kill.

At the range I've many times had modern shooters comment that they had no idea that a flintlock could be so accurate as my iron sighted groups many times challenge theirs shot with the most modern equipment...of course they are shooting a box of shells during the time I shoot 5 patched roundballs!

As long as they respect my choices, I respect theirs.
 
I've killed my share of deer with percussion muzzleloaders. But for many years I have hunted with nothing except flintlocks. Either ignition type requires much more from the hunter than modern rifles do. Besides making one a better hunter/woodsman, the act of actually "earning" one's game brings satisfaction like no cf hunter can experience. I love to be "quiet and alone" in the woods, enjoying a natural movie so many others ignore. I've always hunted alone. Even with a partner we go our own way to seek solitude. I wear historically correct, ahem! camo or a canvas shooting coat and boots, or maybe jeans. :cool:
 
I have lots of hunting guns from many periods, from 1700s to today; handguns, rifles, and shotguns. I have taken animals in six states and three countries over forty years of hunting. I have evolved (devolved?) into a flintlock snob. Whenever I hunt with anything more modern, I feel cheap and dirty. The satisfaction of taking a game animal, from squirrel to moose, with a flintlock firing home-made patches lubed with homemade lube and hand-cast balls or shot, is just "different." Far more satisfying that anything else I have hunted with. If I can be forgiven for taking liberties with an old inappropriate expression, "once you go black, you never go back."

ADK Bigfoot
 
You're preaching to the choir here. I have a beautiful little 20 ga SxS Ithaca/SKB with three sets of barrels . . . but it hasn't been grouse hunting with me for years. When I go out now it is with my 16 bore flintlock.

I'm happy just to flush them in the last few years. Grouse have taken a population hit hereabouts and it's more than a bit concerning. Too many coyote, foxes, fishers and West Nile Virus.
 
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