I think I already did on page 1 of this post.
The stuff you show pictured is the same stuff that was labeled #9 Plus just a few years ago.
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Hoppe's labeling change ???
- Thread starter Scout1
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I think I already did on page 1 of this post.
The stuff you show pictured is the same stuff that was labeled #9 Plus just a few years ago.
What I have seen, the newer appears totally different than older (clear vs milky). Current SDS lists three item numbers, which I believe just indicates container size - and they still call it ‘Black Powder Bore Cleaner & Patch Lubricant’. The item numbers have not changed over years that I can tell. My main use for it lately has been when shooting corrosive stuff in some non muzzleloading applications.
Like many producers of consumer products, the manufactures of Hoppe’s change formulas without saying much, many times not updating the SDS because it is ‘just a modification or improvement’ to the original, avoiding the complete redo of the SDS. Look at Pyrodox and 777 if you want to research another example. On SDS may look the nearly the same, but in reality, many differences.
https://www.hoppes.com/Hoppes/files/a7/a75dfe32-eefb-4f3d-8535-9177ae22d408.pdf
Really not trying to be pedantic about this, AlanG, but when I question a product's authenticity and a retailer replies "You got the correct product." Why, because it is the item the retailer wishes to sell?
"Tweaked the formula a bit." ? Was that so one product now does "everything" ? I don't want it to "do everything".
Appreciate your post/explanation.
No- there was only 1 product. The label change doesn't mean anything, it has always been both a cleaner and a patch lube in one product. I can't think of any commercial liquid lubes that don't do both.
If you look at my post on the first page I think you will understand what I meant by "tweaked"- but the current product has been the same for quite a while now.
Pedantic- Ha!. At three pages in on a product that hasn't changed except the label, I think we crossed the Official International Pedantic Line two pages ago! Cleaning or lube post/questions do it every time.
As the OP for this thread I'd like to try and clear up a couple of points. I have some othe original 9 Plus Bore Cleaner and Patch Lubricant. It is in the white squeeze bottle and is very creamy consistency ( pictue hand lotion ). I also just received 4 bottles of the current offering from Midway. It's states it's a Black Powder Bore Cleaner. NO WHERE does it state patch lubricant. Examining both the old and the new together there is no way they are the same product. Yes they both have the same product number ( 999 ) but that is the only thing they have in common.
AlanG: I sense your eloquent boot upon my neck.
Ok, we have the definitive evidence it has never changed.
Question for the peanut gallery. Has anyone actually tested both versions (creamy/milky vs clear) head to head as a either a cleaner or patch lube? Can’t do it here as the only stuff I have, which works great as both a cleaner and patch lube, is the older creamy/milky stuff. Don’t really care what the label says, how do both actually perform?
I have not actually cleaned a gun or used the clear or newer formulation as a patch lube, although I have heard some comment is wasn’t the same as the older creamer or milky stuff. Just because the newer clear formula doesn’t feel, smell or look like the old formula, plus the label change, doesn’t mean anything. It may still work the same. Now I have not personally tasted both versions, but assume they must taste and perform the same because of the label change doesn’t mean anything evedence.
Question for the peanut gallery. Has anyone actually tested both versions (creamy/milky vs clear) head to head as a either a cleaner or patch lube? Can’t do it here as the only stuff I have, which works great as both a cleaner and patch lube, is the older creamy/milky stuff. Don’t really care what the label says, how do both actually perform?
Pretty sure this has already been covered. Can you post a picture of the back of the label showing directions?
Pretty much by definition, if you can clean a BP gun with it, it will also work as a patch lube.
I don't believe Hoppes #9 was ever a "hand lotion" consistency- they haven't sold that flat white squeeze bottle version for a long time- most likely aged thru water evaporating.
SDSmlf- I've used all three for cleaner and patch lube. All worked well, but I believe the current stuff is a better cleaner than the version you show. Can't say "side by side" test though.
The bottle like you have had more brownish to it than the other products, and a stronger smell- which I always (for right or wrong) attributed to the kerosene content.
Honestly, I think it is all sort of plain old #9 Nitro mixed with water and probably something to help keep it mixed.
Try mixing #9 Nitro and some water- I think you will be a little surprised.
And yes it does contain kerosene, and probably a whole lot more "gun seizing"
petrol products!Just to push the line of Pedantry beyond all reason:
On left is Hoppe's #9 Nitro mixed with water, on left is current (3 months or so) #9 Black Powder Cleaner. Both have exactly the same consistency and feel/slipperyness. i would be shocked of they didn't perform identicaly.
Further:
This is the Hoppe's #9 Nitro mixed with more water than above. Continued addition of water pushes the color to the point of completely milky white, almost to the shade of Ballistol and water mix. Still has that same slippery/slimy feel as the BP Cleaner. I hate to mention Ballistol, it brings out Pyrodex level hate, but a 3-1 mix of Water to Ballistol will perform every bit as good or better than Hoppe's #9 BP Cleaner/Patch Lube and is significantly more economical and more versatile than the Hoppe's BP- though The Hoppe's is certainly one of the better products.
Still has that same slippery/slimy feel as the BP Cleaner.
Now my hands are going to smell like Hoppe's for the rest of the day!
On left is Hoppe's #9 Nitro mixed with water, on left is current (3 months or so) #9 Black Powder Cleaner. Both have exactly the same consistency and feel/slipperyness. i would be shocked of they didn't perform identicaly.
Further:
This is the Hoppe's #9 Nitro mixed with more water than above. Continued addition of water pushes the color to the point of completely milky white, almost to the shade of Ballistol and water mix. Still has that same slippery/slimy feel as the BP Cleaner. I hate to mention Ballistol, it brings out Pyrodex level hate, but a 3-1 mix of Water to Ballistol will perform every bit as good or better than Hoppe's #9 BP Cleaner/Patch Lube and is significantly more economical and more versatile than the Hoppe's BP- though The Hoppe's is certainly one of the better products.
Still has that same slippery/slimy feel as the BP Cleaner.
Now my hands are going to smell like Hoppe's for the rest of the day!
Well in the next few days I will hopefully have a few bottles of the old white flip tops marked Hoppes #9 Plus Patch lube and bore cleaner, I got a sixteen ounce bottle Of New old stock Hoppes #9 Plus BP patch lube and bore cleaner identical to the ones in the post above in the mail today and I already have a case of ten bottles Marked Hoppes #9 Patch lube and bore cleaner. Got a three day weekend with nothing to do but hang out at my range so I am going to test all three at great length. Will post results with pics next week. The only thing I can say right now is the ten bottles that I currently have have been excellent as lube and cleaner so far. But they are much thicker than the sixteen ounce bottle and smell totally different, The sixteen ounce bottle definitely has a stronger kerosene odor and the newer bottles have a slightly sweet odor.
Don’t always trust SDS documents, but below are the ingredients from Hoppe’s SDS documents.
First, the nitro breakdown.
Then the BP breakdown.
So, is the BP formula the same as the nitro with water added? Not a chemistry guy, more mechanical. Will let the chemistry experts explain.
SDSmlf- Agree, certainly can't use MSDS as a clear ingredient type guide (for non chemists anyway) but they certainly have a lot in common, with Nitro being more solvent heavy as expected. I would bet one of the other ingredients would be to keep the water mixed or emulsified or similar.
It certainly seems the Nitro was the general begin point for the Plus no?
It certainly seems the Nitro was the general begin point for the Plus no?
May have started with nitro? Do not know. But nitro didn’t work with BP for me and others when tried in the past. Older Plus stuff worked with BP. Milky/creamy plus. Paid $1 per 32oz for what I have. No complaints. Cannot speak to current clear formula.
Not sure I understand debate. Hoppe’s changed look, feel and smell of Plus product without package change. Is the new formulation as good as or better than the old? Don’t know. No head to head comparisons. I have plenty (64oz plus) of the old stuff that I am others have found to work. Ultimately, don’t care, just offering my opinion based on actual experience.
Eutycus
Cannon
I haven't read a label lately, just what is the "magic" ingredient that Plus has in it that regular Hoppes doesn't have? Or is it the other way around?
Wow- 30 bottles that's commitment!
Do you use it to clean your guns or just as a patch lube?
I don't think you will see much difference as a patch lube between them, I do think the current version is better at cleaning, might be splitting hairs though. Curious to hear your results either way.
Do you use it to clean your guns or just as a patch lube?
I don't think you will see much difference as a patch lube between them, I do think the current version is better at cleaning, might be splitting hairs though. Curious to hear your results either way.
They are conveniently sized.
