Paper For Shot Canisters

nhmoose said:

Bwahha I know what you mean, However when the little girl checking you out at the super market asks paper or plastic say paper.

Note: some of the big chains don't ask you as there is no choice. I always get paper from our local market at least once a month.

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Don't have paper at all any more, both checkers and plastic are on their way out.
I now bag my own with reusable bags (that I love) and I check myself out, (which I also love).

I won't start using the self checkout line until that line gets a discount based on the money the company is saving putting someone out of a job.

Brokennock said:

I won't start using the self checkout line until that line gets a discount based on the money the company is saving putting someone out of a job.

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I had that attitude at first too. Then I realized how liberating and faster it was.

ppg1949 said:

Robby, do you cut slits in one end to open up faster or close them off?

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I figure out the size of the paper by trial and error using a dowel, when I get the overall height required to hold the amount of shot I am using for that specific caliber I add enough to make a crimp at one end so it looks sort of like a shotgun shell and give it a few light taps with a wooden mallet, this will be the bottom and holds the little cup together pretty good, no glue or tape is used. I leave the top open and use an overshot wad to cap it. The wrap around the dowel is one overlap and cut at where the paper starts.I hope this makes sense to you. I've carried these in a buckskin bag inside my pouch squirrel and goose hunting, they hold together fine. Shooting trap with them I find them and they appear to open up just fine, patterning, they do help tighten it up a bit.
Robby

Robby said:

I figure out the size of the paper by trial and error using a dowel, when I get the overall height required to hold the amount of shot I am using for that specific caliber I add enough to make a crimp at one end so it looks sort of like a shotgun shell and give it a few light taps with a wooden mallet, this will be the bottom and holds the little cup together pretty good, no glue or tape is used. I leave the top open and use an overshot wad to cap it. The wrap around the dowel is one overlap and cut at where the paper starts.I hope this makes sense to you. I've carried these in a buckskin bag inside my pouch squirrel and goose hunting, they hold together fine. Shooting trap with them I find them and they appear to open up just fine, patterning, they do help tighten it up a bit.
Robby

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Robby, It makes sense. I’ve used coin wrappers in the past but I always cut slits in them to open up. Based on what you shared I’m going to try some of your index card shot cups.
Thanks

Once a cup is formed, how far should it extend beyond the load of shot? Should the cup be only high enough to hold the amount of shot?

Daryl Crawford said:

Once a cup is formed, how far should it extend beyond the load of shot? Should the cup be only high enough to hold the amount of shot?

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DC, when I use mine, I load the shot a little above the shot cup. i.e., I load my one ounce shot cups with
1-1/8 of shot then an over shot card. Others may do it different and maybe they will respond. Good luck.

Are you forming cups at the muzzle with a mandrel? Or are these premade and prefilled? I usually hunt with premade prefilled cups/cartridges, but when I form cups at the muzzle I use precut strips of paper sized for a length that just barely matches the length of the shot column in the bore.
I like the premade cups for neatness reasons. I'm not carrying a bunch of loose shot that I have to pour, in one heavy clumsy container. No worries about overfill and thus spillage and waste.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/premade-shot-cups-cartridges-how-to.113216/

Brokennock said:

Are you forming cups at the muzzle with a mandrel? Or are these premade and prefilled? I usually hunt with premade prefilled cups/cartridges, but when I form cups at the muzzle I use precut strips of paper sized for a length that just barely matches the length of the shot column in the bore.
I like the premade cups for neatness reasons. I'm not carrying a bunch of loose shot that I have to pour, in one heavy clumsy container. No worries about overfill and thus spillage and waste.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/premade-shot-cups-cartridges-how-to.113216/

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Brokennoch, I'm not sure if your question is for me but I will share how I do it. I carry premeasured powder in Blackhorn 209 vials. I have premeasured shot in containers similar to 35mm film canisters. My shot cups are all pre made but empty. I generally carry 15 of each but may carry more.

ppg1949 said:

Brokennoch, I'm not sure if your question is for me but I will share how I do it. I carry premeasured powder in Blackhorn 209 vials. I have premeasured shot in containers similar to 35mm film canisters. My shot cups are all pre made but empty. I generally carry 15 of each but may carry more.

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Sorry, my question was meant for @Daryl Crawford who asked how full the shot cup should be. But your method is interesting.

@Brokennock I'm not doing anything yet. I'm looking to close a deal on my first smoothie and am trying to get as much knowledge as I can to get right out on the range/pattern board with it. I didn't know if the paper would extent taller than the shot load so that it could be sort of "crimped" or if the shot ran just higher than the paper.

Are you making cups or cartridges ?
Cups will have to be loaded with shot at the muzzle, cartridges are self contained.

Nothing yet, don't even have the gun in hand yet. In reading I was thinking that shot cups would be the way to go. That's why I asked about how the load looked.

And in some states now, you pay extra for plastic. Here in the People's Republic of Connecticut we have to pay 10 cents per bag for plastic shopping bags, regardless of what size bag, at any store. Amazing the number of people putting everything back in the cart and moving everything they bought from the register to their car and unloading the cart at their car. Or bringing their own bags. The state gets the 10 cents. Many of us have made no bones about telling them, and the state, that I would rather pay the store 20 cents for a paper bag with the store's logo and the store keeps the money, than 10 cents for the usual plastic bag and have the 10 cents go to the state.


Here in the People's Republic of Maryland, the Counties may decide, so it's five cents for the plastic bags, because of "the landfill situation". So folks were going to go back to brown paper, but the County decided it would be five cents for brown paper bags too...one of the most biodegradable papers on the planet, but we have "the landfill situation".

So a lot of us use reusable bags, OR simply buy groceries (and our booze but that's a different story) in the adjoining county.

Making a shot canister or shot cup can be formed several ways.

The simplest way is to have two strips of paper about 3" long by the diameter of the barrel. Load the powder. Start an over powder wad (or two over shot cards) place the two strips across the muzzle and start the crossed strips into the muzzle. Pour in your desired shot load. Cut off excess paper. start an over shot card or a well lubricated fiber wad (Skychief's loading) and ram the load to seat on the powder.

Its a bit more difficult to make a shot canister as you need to make a cartridge former. Now you want your paper of choice to be wrapped twice to three times around the mandrel and glued to form a tube that just slips into the muzzle of your shotgun or fowling gun. Fold the end of the tube to crimp and glue the crimp closed. Load the shot in the tube and crimp and glue the top closed. Glue and over shot card to the top of the cartridge. As always load the desired quantity of powder first, then insert the cartridge with the card on top. Ram the cartridge.

With both loads, the paper will burst apart on firing as the shot column leaves the muzzle. The paper will form a cushion between the barrel and the pellets. This should hold to keep the shot from deforming. Check your pattern for effectivity.

Daryl Crawford said:

Nothing yet, don't even have the gun in hand yet. In reading I was thinking that shot cups would be the way to go. That's why I asked about how the load looked.

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You could leave the precut strips a little long and fold them over the top of the shot, I don't think it would hurt anything. It would also leave you room for either error, or, heavier loads, without carrying different size strips of paper.

Thanks all. I appreciate the info. Hope to get my hands on a smoothbore soon and use this info.

Brokennock said:

You could leave the precut strips a little long and fold them over the top of the shot, I don't think it would hurt anything. It would also leave you room for either error, or, heavier loads, without carrying different size strips of paper.

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My concern would be if it prevented the overshot card from fully seating. This could allow the shot charge to move and dislodge the overshot card. then your shot could roll out.

Carbon 6 said:

My concern would be if it prevented the overshot card from fully seating. This could allow the shot charge to move and dislodge the overshot card. then your shot could roll out.

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That would be my concern too. Thus the comment to fold the extra over the top of the shot. I suppose one could trim the extra away with one's belt knife like cutting a patch at the muzzle.

Brokennock said:

I suppose one could trim the extra away with one's belt knife like cutting a patch at the muzzle.

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Seems like things are getting overly complicated. Might be time to reevaluate the goal of using a shot cup and chose a different path to get there.