Castor oil / Denatured alcohol patch lube users question

This spring, around April, I made up some CO/DA patches at a 6:1 ratio. I had been experimenting with some different lubes and put them in a Ziploc bag labeled as to what they were. I shot them shortly after and they gave me the best groups to date that I'd gotten out of my rifle.
This last weekend I got out and did some shooting again. I used the same patches I'd made up in the spring, so around 4 months old. They shot really poorly this time around. I suspect that they start to damage the patch material if allowed to sit around that long? I will make up some new ones right before my next chance to get out shooting to verify, but has anyone else experienced this lube mixture damaging the patch in such a, to me, short amount of time?

That is a well known problem with pre-lubed patches. Cotton with about anything on it doesn't age well. The fibers break down over time. The lube will also dry out.

Once I bought a bag of factory made pre-lubed patches.
They all blew apart when they were shot. No telling how many years they set on the shelves but however long it was had totally ruined them. That's when I decided to only use unlubed patches and lube them right before I shot them.

Sense those days, I've taken to buying pillow ticking by the yard and not looking back.

renegadehunter said:

This spring, around April, I made up some CO/DA patches at a 6:1 ratio. I had been experimenting with some different lubes and put them in a Ziploc bag labeled as to what they were. I shot them shortly after and they gave me the best groups to date that I'd gotten out of my rifle.
This last weekend I got out and did some shooting again. I used the same patches I'd made up in the spring, so around 4 months old. They shot really poorly this time around. I suspect that they start to damage the patch material if allowed to sit around that long? I will make up some new ones right before my next chance to get out shooting to verify, but has anyone else experienced this lube mixture damaging the patch in such a, to me, short amount of time?

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You used denatured alcohol, It can "ferment," be eaten by bacteria and converted into vinegar (acid). Need I say more ?
Try freezing your patches when not in use.

I use Isopropyl alcohol (91%) and castor oil with a little Murphy's Oil Soap. Don't know that the denatured would make a difference, but it might. It is different than ethanol or methanol in the way it reacts with other ingredients.

Haven't noticed that the cotton deteriorates. I'll have to see if I can find some old lubed patch strips. I usually dip strips and cut at the muzzle so it the strips were failing from the edges in I might not notice.

I guess I should've mentioned that the patches were lubed "Dutch style", where they are dipped in the CO/DA and then left out for the DA to evaporate off and just leave the CO behind. The patches went into the bag after they had set out and the DA had evaporated out and are used as a dry lube style.

I have had the DA for quite a while now, probably a couple of years as it was a pretty big container of it I bought, it could be fermenting I suppose. Still smells the same to me though. I keep it in the original container in the bottom of the gun cabinet, so it rarely sees any light, but I do also transfer it into an old Isopropyl container that I keep in my shooting bag for swabbing out the bore protectant before shooting and also after cleaning to help dry out the bore. That bottle definitely gets some more light exposure. I couldn't say which container of DA I used when I made up the CO/DA concoction.
Would I be better off to switch to a high percentage Isopropyl alcohol and ditch the DA? I don't mind making up patches just a couple of days before shooting and really don't have any plans of prelubing patches and storing them for any length of time, I was just surprised that they appear to have gone bad in just 3-4 months time.

Zonie said:

Once I bought a bag of factory made pre-lubed patches.
They all blew apart when they were shot. No telling how many years they set on the shelves but however long it was had totally ruined them. That's when I decided to only use unlubed patches and lube them right before I shot them.

Sense those days, I've taken to buying pillow ticking by the yard and not looking back.

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Wow. Thanks for the tip. I think I have a zip-loc of some pre-lubes, I'll just toss them. I don't know where I got them, but don't shoot often enough to have them on hand.

So I will ask a dumb question: what is the formula for castor oil based patch lube and how do you use it? I have lots of castor oil for soap making and it would be real easy to use some of it for patch lube,

I make mine at a 6:1 ratio. Anywhere from 5:1 to 8:1 is commonly used, have to experiment to see which your rifle and you prefer.
It is a method to make a "dry" patch type of lube. I mix 6 parts denatured alcohol to 1 part castor oil. Shake the heck out of the container you put them in. Then I dip patches into the solution and lay them out flat on a screen to let the alcohol evaporate out. It leaves a very light lube of castor oil behind. It is a nice method to easily control how much lube is applied to the patch. Dutch S. believes that the less lube on the patch, the longer it will let pressure build behind it before starting down the barrel and leads to better accuracy. All I know is that my rifle shoots it really well. The same lubing method can be used with Ballistol and water as well.

I've used it since about then myself. ;-)

I've had strips fail that were pre-lubed, air dried and stored in a ziplock bag for over a year. Started the ball, and when I gathered up the end of the strip to cut-at-the-muzzle...it just pulled away as the deteriorated material essentially shredded in my hand. Live and learn.

I've been using Stumpkiller's recipe for more years than I can count. Only difference is I've been using scraps of linen left over from shirt making (I measure the fabric for shirts....0.010") and store the shooting patches in a zip lock bag. Dry them as Dutch recommends before storing them. Works great.

Zonie- I get what the the Murphy's, alcohol and water gets you, but what do you think the benefits of the Castor Oil and Witch Hazel add?

The castor oil is what lubricates the patch and bore. It is an excellent lubricant and for years was used in model airplane fuel to lubricate the high speed engines those flying planes used. It was also used as a lube for real airplanes and race cars. It doesn't dry out or harden after years and it is an excellent oil to protect steel from rust.
Hanging above my head is a Fokker D7 last flown over 30 years ago and even though I haven't lubricated it or run it since those days, there is no rust on the engine and it still turns freely.

As for the Witch Hazel, Stumpkiller had a reason for adding it but I've forgotten what it is. Maybe he will show up here and answer the question.

Zonie said:

The castor oil is what lubricates the patch and bore. It is an excellent lubricant and for years was used in model airplane fuel to lubricate the high speed engines those flying planes used. It was also used as a lube for real airplanes and race cars. It doesn't dry out or harden after years and it is an excellent oil to protect steel from rust.
Hanging above my head is a Fokker D7 last flown over 30 years ago and even though I haven't lubricated it or run it since those days, there is no rust on the engine and it still turns freely.

As for the Witch Hazel, Stumpkiller had a reason for adding it but I've forgotten what it is. Maybe he will show up here and answer the question.

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Stumpkiller, I’d also like to understand what the Witch Hazel is for in your recipe please. Not critical, genuine interest.
I’ve think most folks recommend dipping twice and letting dry in between for this patch lube, correct? Lastly, does the alcohol and Castor oil need to be mixed first before adding the other ingredients? Thanks!

Zonie said:

I've used Stumpkiller's Moose Juice since 2006 and it's always worked for me for a patch lube.
It is based on Caster Oil along with some other things that might seem weird to put into a patch lube but IMO, it's worth it.

His original formula would make more of it than I needed so I reduced the amounts of each ingredeant to make a smaller batch.

Here's a link to a post I made back in 2006 with the smaller batch's amounts:

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/stumpys-moose-juice.19126/

He's also come up with a bullet lube but I haven't tried it.

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I have used moose juice also. It worked well but I prefer to use Stumpy's moose snot for patch lube. This is a mixture of bee's wax and castor oil with a little murphy's oil soap. A very slick lube.............watch yer top knot..............

We in this modern time must be spoiled. Can't imagine the actual users of guns in the 18th & 19th Century finding, mixing, using all of these complicated concoctions! Just 'sayin! Nice that people are experimenting for our contemporary usage, though.

springfield art said:

We in this modern time must be spoiled. Can't imagine the actual users of guns in the 18th & 19th Century finding, mixing, using all of these complicated concoctions! Just 'sayin! Nice that people are experimenting for our contemporary usage, though.

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Taller and bees wax was probably the hot lube mix back in the day , not sure what's wrong with it now. Works fine in my .40 Tennessee flinter and mostly stays in the hole , course it's not my hot weather rifle . This is the only thing I use that I mix. I use mink oil, snow seal, TC lube, sperm oil (almost gone) , bear oil (gift) and spit . Never failed to get a rifle to act right with any of them . Sperm oil was bad to rot patches so I only lubed them in small batches but never had such issues with the TC or mink and don't expect any rot from the bear but we will see . Sometime on the range I use Lux and water or Murphys Oil but not for hunting . Reckon everybody just likes to use different stuff , kinda fun to play with it I guess .

renegadehunter said:

This spring, around April, I made up some CO/DA patches at a 6:1 ratio. I had been experimenting with some different lubes and put them in a Ziploc bag labeled as to what they were. I shot them shortly after and they gave me the best groups to date that I'd gotten out of my rifle.
This last weekend I got out and did some shooting again. I used the same patches I'd made up in the spring, so around 4 months old. They shot really poorly this time around. I suspect that they start to damage the patch material if allowed to sit around that long? I will make up some new ones right before my next chance to get out shooting to verify, but has anyone else experienced this lube mixture damaging the patch in such a, to me, short amount of time?

Click to expand...

I think I started the Water soluble oil and water practice that changed to the Bllistol and water patch lubesystem.
A few of my subscribers haveleht the congregation and done some real experimentation with Castor Oil and Alcohol with very good results. I am pleased.
My only question is:
Does the castor oil mix evenly with the alcohol/ or does it float on top of the water.?
If it blends with the water and allows the alcohol to evaporate it could be perfect.
Whether Castor Oil eats into or otherwise destroys the cloth I wouldn't know. If it does I would suggest trying a different oil. Maybe even Ballistol.
Any oil that blends with the alcohol should do.This experiment was in the back of my mind when I had to give up shooting altogether.I am delighted to see people experimenting. It can be trying at times but every so often there is the discovery/

Dutch Schoultz