Target shooting.....

And to follow Zonie, he has been an inspiration to some of us as well!

Nope mr. Smoothy, has gone to the legal side. He don't shoot one ball any more. It is in writing in another thread if i recall correctly. Others from uk have told him he could, could challenge as others have but he has taken the high road and does not want to risk what he has now.

Sometimes older threads get revived and they may indicate differently but you must read all his work to validate he is legal in uk and is not in the mood to have any unwanted visitors or correspondence. This thread in of itself is 6 months old and a lot happens around here and there during that amount of time.

Well I agree he & you as do I have a right to disagree with laws .What you don't want to be doing is advertising the fact you've been breaking them so openly as he has done. Nor being rude to any critic on this forum . Rudyard

I think Brit should move over here and enjoy some freedom. I would welcome him with open arms, and leave the dark ages behind. 2 cents.

I am British but I loath being British. It's arrogance and history makes me cringe.
I hate it's underhanded controlling manner of its people, why over the centuries the British elite have got the people to turn on each in order to keep control of the masses. No more is this still evident than in the shooting world of Britain today.
If you don't follow the herd you should be burned on a stake and the fragrance of one's fat offered as a fragrance to the anti's and parliament.
Being an individual with out pursuing any violent criminal act is no defence. For being an individual that does not comply with a standard deregulates one to a heretics status and that must be stamped out as quick as possible.

Just where is my crime? How have I harmed someone? Where is the fraud?
No need to answer, I already know, no one was harmed and nothing stolen.

I have read over and over again, with others even, the law regarding owning and using shotguns in the UK.
THERE IS NO LINK TYING A MUZZLELOADING SHOTGUN AS DESCRIBED IN LAW, TO SHOOTING A SINGLE PROJECTILE FROM A MUZZLELOADER.
All reference to slugs and ball being shot from smoothbores on shotgun licences revolve around breech loaders by singling out loaded ammunition with slug loads requiring a firearm certificate and thus good reason to posses.
If the law makers wanted a type of gun that does not use loaded ammunition like say a muzzleloader, held on a shotgun licence, to not shoot a single projectile there is no reason why they could not of clearly stated it in all the sub clauses. However they did not.
Now, some say, especially the anti and parliament appeasers that it does no matter it is not clearly defined for muzzleloaders, they assure me I must assume it applies to muzzleloaders.

The problem arises not from someone like me, a simple meat hunter but from the law makers who no doubt consulted with experts and did not remove all doubt!
Similar experts helped stop bow hunting in the UK while the rest of the world seems to be doing just fine by it!

The sad thing in this is the controlling aspect not just directed to me but to others too that like to do things differently. For instance to own a patched ball rifle I have to have a firearms certificate. An FAC differs from a shotgun certificate(SGC) in that the onus is on the applicant to supply a good reason to own a rifle whereas a SGC will be granted to an applicant (sans criminal record).
There is no written law prohibiting a muzzleloader rifle from being used for hunting but there is a journal produced by government meant to guide the licencing authorities (police) which states the use of muzzleloader rifles for hunting should be deterred!
There is no legal basis for this at all but that is the British way! Experts, committees, the elite all converge to put their mark on the seal of the beast that looks down on the little subject to keep him under control!
Control of what? Nothing, nothing at all.
A raft of center fire rifles have passed through my hands all legally held and every one of them capable of shooting a bullet three times the distance of a lead ball from a muzzleloader but they are the norm, they get that! That's fine by them!

It's not difficult for someone in the UK to become bitter of the law makers and so called experts that don't protect the wishes of the little man but trade on the wishes of the little man for what they determine is the greater good. Who are they that will trade my humble wishes away. Is it really me being rude and presumptuous!!
Now, let's go back to SGC rules.
On a shotgun certificate a shotgun can shoot a cartridge that does not contain less than 5 number of pellets and no larger than .36".
So in regard to my .45" some say I can not shoot a .445" ball from it because I have to assume I can not! But I can shoot 5x.36" balls from it and guess what I have and it works but hang on....isn't that just crazy. Maybe it's just me but I think it bloody stupid and frankly exposes the law as a complete joke!
There is nothing stopping me from loading any amount of .36" balls in say a 3&1/2" 12g hull or a 10g hull legally but my .45" muzzleloader is of the devil's spawn and so am I if I load it with one .445" ball.....really!
Then they like to jump on the humane band wagon.
If it didn't work I ( when I thought it was legal to do but must assume it isn't now) I would not of done it. To claim it's inhumane is to call the rest of the world as cruel. Again is it me being presumptuous or is it the experts and their ego or self righteous spirit being presumptuous towards me? After all we are talking rabbit hunting here in my case, hardly elephant poaching is it!
Nope the humane thing or card is purely to appease politicians and vegans.
Listen, IT DON'T APPEASE THEM!

That leads nicely into the legal use of a MUZZLELOADING shotgun. Using shot that everyone is happy I use, why is that humane to use with its slow loading and inferior ballistic performance compared to a modern shotgun, should that not be stopped, offered up to the vegan and politician as a sweet fragrant sacrifice?

Once more....in capitals....SINCE SPEAKING TO MY LICENCING DEPARTMENT AND BEING THREATENED OF LOSS OF LICENCES I WILL NO LONGER PROVIDE ANY EVIDENCE THAT CAN BE USED AGAINST ME.

I can not remove old posts on here and nor do I wish to. Frankly I don't give a flying fig because as far as I WAS concerned I was within the law at the time of posting.
Oh, and the reason I dropped handgun shooting in the UK before it was sacrificed to the politicians was I could not stand the pompous self righteous back stabbing egotistical committee mindset it thrived on.
Some of which still exists in the UK or by ex pat's today, exactly why I stay in the woods, where they don't go!

B.

Brit, please forgive Mr. Hallam, he and others like him, are the ones Henry Thoreau said were 'Hacking at the branches' of evil rather than 'striking at the root'. Like Voltaire said, 'It is difficult to free Idiots from the Chains they admire'. We have plenty of these in America too, slowly (or not) sweeping away our gun rights under the pretense of 'defending' them. As long as dollars (or quid) can buy self serving politicians, the chains of slavery will remain bright. Mr. Hallam can rest assured his descendents will be forever grateful that he was an obedient servant of the Law.

Britsmoohy, it is a shame a great thread has been taken out of context and turned in a different direction. You are not alone in not being a huge fan of paper punching. I have punched thousands of holes in paper over the years working loads, zeroing, plotting trajectory, checking patterns, etc. I shoot a lot of steel instead of paper, have a lot of friends that share your opinion of paper punching. Also about some of the rules, regulations, laws etc here in the states and around the world. A popular saying is that "Gun control is not about guns but control." We have watched lead be banned in different areas because it kills animals that eat it. These things happen because we that are subjected to the regulations have not as a group demanded the proof of the accusations. It is not just shooters that are subjected to rules and regulations pushed by a few that are vocal and get there way. Sir, it is doubtful things will change for the better. I enjoy reading your post and threads. Seeing your dog brings back memories of hunting with dogs years ago. You shooting the 45 smooth bore caused me to rethink things. I came back to muzzle loading/blackpowder a few years ago. Your writing and photos are something I look for when I come to the forum. Sir, I pray you live long and are able to hunt and enjoy your dog and guns. Bless You Sir, Frank

As has been said on both sides of the lake<" It's not about guns, it's all about control".

The irony is I feel more in kin to people's over seas than here but I am trapped here.
The other irony is all summer they, the controllers have been or could of labelled me as normal! All summer I have been shooting my 22, my nitro shotguns and airguns but so typical of a hyper sensitive/ critical society such as is here on this crumby island all the above pales into insignificance.
I too have shot paper and steel. When I said I hate it it was said tongue in cheek. Not as a criticism to paper shooters.
The reason I hate it so to speak is because it is so critical of my shooting.
I never realised my words thus would touch a nerve as it did.
The other irony is I know I am not alone in doing some things differently compared to most in British shooting sports but because I have been vocal about all, I have indirectly painted a huge target on my own back! For instance, bow hunting is illegal but hunting with a catapult and ball or stone is not, put an arrow in a catapult to hunt with and it becomes illegal. But hundreds of slingbows are being bought every year over here. There is as far as I know no completion series running for slingbows over here so you can work the rest out!
But how can it be that hunting with a bow is illegal but a ball propelled by rubber is not?
I will tell you, them in office don't fear a catapult, a silent arrow and broadhead slightly more so.....we are back to the control thing again are not we, a control thing with a hidden agenda!
Maybe that's why the shooting fraternity likes to feel they belong to a group over here. Maybe it makes them feel secure, presenting an image of responsibility to the nation, including antis. A renegade rocks their world I guess and they have to be seen to rise against any rebel or as they see it rabble. It's a familiar tale in the British way, look at America's history with Britain! What they can not see just as king George could not, times are a changing, their traditional shooting ways, what they have relied on for centuries is coming under more and more scrutiny all the time. Their foundations are being rocked and they feel it and the fear turns very quickly to wrath!
Maybe I should be pleased! It will be ones like me that are use to going it alone that will carry on, all be it covertly but them, just like the way pistol shooters went in Britain will have to let go of their sinking ships that are the committee's that court and prostitute themselves to parlaiment!

Sure sure, they, the authorities can come and take away my gear when ever they want. Just what would they be taking away? For a start they would be freeing me from any traceability, accountability to the controllers. They would be treating as if I were a criminal and once labeled thus like so many over here I actually become in a strange way invisible!
I would be free to use any method I chose, illegal or otherwise to achieve my goals, I mean why not, they branded me a criminal right?
It ain't gonna happen, they like the status quo, I'm on their radar, I give them purpose in reality! When I was corrected for my huge error recently I became a huge satisfying tick in one of their box's.
They, or the system actually needs me more than I need them!
B.
Any way......

Brit, quick question, for the 45 smoothly what is heaviest and lightest charges of shot you have used. What weight gave best patterns? Thanks

theoldredneck said:

Brit, quick question, for the 45 smoothly what is heaviest and lightest charges of shot you have used. What weight gave best patterns? Thanks

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Friend it shoots great from 1/2oz to 3/4oz. I found when patterning it can change from shot to shot so I don't get to hung up on patterns except to check for dough nut patterns.
One thing I have noticed is that probably due to the bore size velocity is always good and it's authority on game is quite evident.
It works best with finer grades of powder including 4f all be it on a 3/4 volume measure to shot volume. Equal volumes from 3f and larger.

Thank You Sir, looking at a 40/45 caliber percussion rifle that is as rusty inside and out as any gun I have looked at. Cost is so low that buying as parts gun. Figured once all rust removed would bore and ream just enough to have clean steel muzzle to breech plug. Your 45 smooth bore has me wanting to try one. This will provide opportunity.

Sounds like a good plan theoldredneck. I'm betting you'd find it very useful!!!

Skychief, your loads and Britsmoothy writing about his planted the seed for this. Finding this rust bucket to use as cheap project was next step.

Not this old fart. My smooth-bore Indian Repro. Baker shoots pretty well and makes me grin from ear-to-ear every time she sparks.

Round ball is legal so, when my 'friendly' Rozzer raise a (personal) doubt, I shoved the books under his nose and politely asked him to find it. Best of luck to you. I'm at Bisley and plan on making lots of smoke tomorrow WITH ROUND PROJECTILES!

You should go check out the World Long Range matches currently going on at Bisley.

Fleener

bisleyjohn said:

Not this old fart. My smooth-bore Indian Repro. Baker shoots pretty well and makes me grin from ear-to-ear every time she sparks.

Round ball is legal so, when my 'friendly' Rozzer raise a (personal) doubt, I shoved the books under his nose and politely asked him to find it. Best of luck to you. I'm at Bisley and plan on making lots of smoke tomorrow WITH ROUND PROJECTILES!

Click to expand...

At last, a faint warm light in the gloom