1847 Reilly 16 bore SxS - Need a barrel expert

Thanks Feltwad. I've asked for pictures. I think I understand the concept.... Also, when I'm looking for a wad for loading....13 bore? I'll cross that bridge when I come to it however.

'Tumbler pin' situation Felt Wad sums it up .The nipples will come with soaking of some penetrating oil,The leather might be a means /expedient to allow the hutts to pull up tighter perhaps due to wood shrinkage . If you get caps to fit my guess is there number 26 which was available up to modern times ..Once out let me know thread could be 1/4" BSF If so I will get some to you they are for no 26s but they can be reduced for No 11 s . I wouldn't bother proofing it but its your gun its been proofed & its from a good stable . Regards Rudyard

Gene Williams said:

Good morning all, looking for some advice. I shoot mostly 19thcentury SxS shotguns. I recently wrote a new short history of London gunmaker E.M. Reilly, published in Diggory Hadoke’s on-line magazine.
https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/a-new-history-of-e-m-reilly

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I finally got a chance to read your article linked in this 1zt topic post. Excellent stuff. Please let us know and post a link when the next installment is available for reading.
Looking forward to it.

Thanks,
Dave

Thank you sir.....The complete article on Reilly can be read here (unedited):
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=436538&page=33

Reilly had a very checkered reputation...mostly because the "experts" of the late 20th century couldn't or didn't do their homework and everybody else cut and pasted. But here is an interesting 1859 Reilly 4-barrel muzzle-loader:

Gene Williams said:

Thank you sir.....The complete article on Reilly can be read here (unedited):
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=436538&page=33

Reilly had a very checkered reputation...mostly because the "experts" of the late 20th century couldn't or didn't do their homework and everybody else cut and pasted. But here is an interesting 1859 Reilly 4-barrel muzzle-loader:

Click to expand...

Thanks. I started reading your posts at the double gun shop, hadn't frequented the site in a while. (Could be dangerous to my fragile budget, lol)
Interesting material. I thank you very much for sharing,
and, for your dedicated service.

Best regards,
Dave

Latest report from my gunsmith: Worse than I thought....still trying to save the gun:

-- quite a bit of internal pitting but the wall thickness is quite good - closer to the muzzle you go the thinner it is. 9" behind the muzzles it is .045" on the walls.
-- Towards the breech there is several areas of deep pitting, the worst of it being in the chamber area itself.




-- The left breech plug has a crack but in an area where both safety and function are not affected.


-- Nipples are stuck in place. Will be extracted:

So there a bit smokey you'd expect that but if theres metal enough just load 2 & half dram & 3/4 ounze . Youle clean it well anyway What does seem unusual are the' Greys' in the plugs .But if in doubt don't use it of course.

Regards Rudyard

If the breech plugs are left in a tin of 50/50 acetone and auto transmission oil, a little heat those cones should come out well enough. PM me if you need custom cones and I can put you onto a chap in the US who does a great job of them. I have had several custom cones made, including a pair for a Joseph Egg double 16 gauge. I also agree with Rudyard just use the charge you will normally use in the gun, don't do a "proof" charge you might damage the gun unecessarily.

Soaking barrels in evapo-rust or whatever your favorite rust remover to remove all rust shows barrels true condition. With all rust removed a bore scope shows exactly what pitting looks like. With barrels plugged and filled with evapo-rust bad pitting when all rust scale was removed have let moisture weep through damascus. Even though a hole couldn't be seen or detected with bore scope. Damascus is layered steel and can be compromised between the layers. In that case I'm not willing to shoot it. The subject of liners in this case is off the table because it is deemed a bubba fix. While breech plugs are out I would definitely clean to bare metal and scope barrels to see how good or bad they really are. Then shoot it or hang it on a wall depending on condition. For the record when liners are put in right, muzzleloader or breech loader, you have to look close to tell it was done. The only noticeable difference is added weight. I do not do work for the public or make any suggestions on who to use. I'm not selling anything or anyone. History is a wonderful thing. I have no problem with those that want to buy and sit on anything of historical value. I have safe queens that are such because of what they mean to me. In your place I would probably clean it, put it up and buy something else to shoot. I admire Feltwads work, not many left that will take one down that far. Putting barrels back together and them being regulated takes skill. He didnt get there over night.

The gun is headed home from its stint at the barrel smith. I will photograph everything and put what he recommends on the board. If it cannot be shot safely....and I believe he tested it...I'll consider other options. I don't think this gun is collectable...Reilly's generally are not... But it is a historical gun because of the addresses on the rib. I don't want a neat gun to just die either.

I received this today from the gunsmith: "I shot it with 90 grains of powder and 1&1/8 ozs of shot,.....it made it fine. Keep it under an once of shot and no more than 2&3/4 drams and you should be fine."

I was frankly thinking Armageddon....i.e. maybe could I sleeve it back to 16 gauge and make it shootable. The gun is not collectable except to a Reilly researcher....and there is only one of those in the whole world that I know of. I didn't need another wall gun...I have a few from Afghanistan.

Now, though it looks like when I want to take it out, I can. I'll work on the stock when it gets back and will post pictures for information. I'll be needing to get a good powder and shot measure...I have an old powder flask.

Din I Tole you?! And it certainly IS collectable even if its never fired . As a general rule the cheaper flasks tend to give a lesser charge than stated whilst the best Quality are more reliable number 5 or 6 shot be suitable, lead of course never steel. Only Reilly collector in the World ? No, But dedicated researcher ? Yes certainly have a very good claim . PM me on the nipple thread if your not happy with the present ones .
Regards Rudyard

5512 is still not back from Colorado. I'm getting a little impatient but time for gunsmiths runs on a different clock.

For those interested in Reilly - here is Part II of my history of Reilly:
https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/the-life-of-reilly

5512 is home. I'll post a pictures of some of the work. The gunsmith did a good job I feel and included packages of 13 bore overshot cards, nitro cards and fiber wads. He had to drill the original nipples out so could not measure them. The nipples are now threaded for 1/4" 28TPI and they use #11 caps.

It was recommended that I try washing the stock first to see what comes off. I tried the technique using dishwashing dial soap on a Pashtun copy of a 1853 Enfield Musket. Well the result was horrible....of course the Pashtun's used fence post material for their reproductions and greased it up to look like it was 150 years old. Civil War reenactors love them. When I bought my first Enfield copy gun 2004 out there it was $100...by 2010 the price for a plain Enfield muzzle loader was $450 but you could get a Martini Henry or a Snider Enfield for $110. Pashtuns know the market.

So I'm going to leave the gun exactly as it is now. No cleaning the stock, maybe finger polishing the side plates, but the patina is just so beautiful.

New nipples:



Left hammer shored up with washer and pin:


I now have to relearn how to shoot a muzzle loader. I've owned one in my life...a Hawken .50 cal. that I took out to Africa in 1980...fired maybe 40 rounds and sold it to a Frenchman. I have wads, cards, a pound of lead 7.5 shot. Need a good powder measure and shot measure. Most shot measures are for 1 1/4 or for 1 1/2 oz loads...I want to keep it under 1 oz. There's a black powder store not too far with a range attached. Maybe I'll drive out.

Good on you, wouldn't a 45 70 case serve as well ? trimmed back or stuffed with paper to get the volume right . Punched wads of the right size be good way to adjust to what you seek. Regards Rudyard

Rudyard, the former Purdey gunsmith comrade of David Trevallion, who immigrated to NZ about 1965 from London, about the time David came to the USA, is Robert Dollimore. I think he had a shop on the North Island at Rotorua. David is now 80 and cranky and opinionated, and can't get around as well anymore, but he's a hands-on non-academic true-fire seat of the pants gunsmith, highly respected. He was George Bush 41's personal gunsmith. He said Robert, unlike the lads at Purdey in the 1950's, early 1960's, was educated and in the class system of UK at that time, he took some heat from the boys in the gun-room for that. Wonder if he is still alive and active?

Sent you a PM re Robert Regards Rudyard

I belted quite a few clays last weekend with a mates Joseph Egg 16 gauge percussion double barrelled fowler. 2 1/2 drams of FFg, 1oz 1/8 of no 4 shot, greased felt wad over powder and two over shot wads in the left barrel and 1 in the right. Gun down and just reflexes I was pleasantly surprised and gave the lads with their over and under and side by sides a bloody good fright !!

I'll be taking Reilly 5512 out Sunday for sporting clays. Here's the load I plan to try (keeping it at 1 oz shot and 70 grains max with all the pitting in the chambers).



I've heard that using the fiber wad creates holes in the pattern. Any thoughts? Could I shoot it without the wad?