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Green Mountain TC Hawken barrels?

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brewer12345

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I have been wringing out my TC Hawken in .50 with various powders, charges and patch thicknesses and have come to the conclusion that this rifle simply does not shoot round balls very well. What it likes is conicals, the heavier the better. Working with REALs in 250 and 320 flavor and then the 370 grain maxi ball, the groups got smaller the higher up I went in weight. At 50 yards the maxi balls would cloverleaf.

For hunting, that is fine I suppose. I am a little disappointed that I can't try my luck with my muzzleloader doe tag with round balls in this rifle, but I have little doubt that a maxi ball over 80 grains of Olde Eynesford FFG will dump a whitetail doe pretty quickly at sensible ranges. That said, with the curved metal buttplate these loads are shoulder breakers at the range. I enjoy just burning powder without killing myself at the target range and I am starting to think about having a dedicated slow twist barrel for round ball.

Track of the wolf seems to have drop in Green Mountain barrels for these rifles. I have a few questions before I part with the cash and I would appreciate any thoughts:

- Are these truly drop in with no fitting?
- what kind of accuracy should I expect from round ball loads once I find what the barrel likes?
- Will a ramrod for a standard 28 inch hawken barrel fit on one of the round ball barrels?
- anything else I should know?

Thanks. It is frustrating not to be able to find a good round ball load with what I have, but it is what it is. Oddly both of my 1 in 48 TC barrels shoot conicals better than round balls. The 54 does better than the 50, but the difference is noticeable even there.
 
I have found that the T/C std barrels with the shallow 1:48 twist shoot round balls best with light powder charges. I'm talking 50-55 grains in a .50 caliber gun. I was getting 1" groups at 25 yards with 55 grains of 3f in my .50, but that might be too light a load for hunting. I have the original green mountain drop in barrels in .50, 54, 45, 36, and 32 calibers. These were perfect drop ins with under rib, ferules, breech plug and ram rod. I am not familiar with the TOW drop ins. Hopefully someone else on this forum will chime in. the GM drop in that i have were longer than the standard T/C barrel. The 50 & 54 are 32" long with 1:66 twist, the .45 is 30" with 1:60 twist, and the .36 & .32 are 28" with 1:48 twist. The T/C ram rod will fit the drop in barrel but may require an extended length jag if the barrel is longer than 28" You should get very tight groups, once you find a load the barrel likes.
 
Your T/C should be able to handle 0.490 round balls with a 0.010" thick patch. If that's what you tried, then go for the 0.495" ball with the same 0.010" patch. Lubricant based on the dry lubed version of Ballistol ( 1 part) and Water (seven parts). Soak the patch material (100% cotton). Let it dry flat. You want a patch with a bit of grab to start that ball spinning. I am guessing that your patch lubricant is too slick. Reduce your powder charge and use a coarser powder. If you were using 3fg, then use 2fg.

Tell us what your round ball load was. Powder (Black Powder or substitute), Patch material, and round ball size.
 
Let's see. Balls are .490. Patches I tried were .015 and .018 prelubed circular ones lubed with wonder lube 2000 (or similar name, package isn't handy). Powder charges I tried ranged from 50 to 80 grains of Black MZ and Olde Eynesford FFG. Everything got an overpowder felt wad because without the wad I am lucky to be on paper at all at 50 yards.

Somewhere down around 50 or 60 grains I was getting maybe 3 inch groups, but to me that is not acceptable for hunting when conditions are not always range-perfect. I also think that is kind of skinny as far as power. Not a huge deal since the rifle shoots conicals so well, but disappointing.
 
Try using patches that have not been "pre-lubricated" and see how they do before giving up on heavier powder charges.

I've found that those "pre-lubed" patches often sit on the shelf for years before they are sold and the pre-lubrication causes the cloth fibers to break down.
If this happens the patch will shred when it is fired. The shredded fibers won't grasp the rifling and rotate the ball and you'll basically end up with shooting a unpatched, undersized ball out of your rifled barrel. No way that's going to give an accurate shot.

The standard TC barrels do have fairly shallow rifling grooves in them so using a tight patch/ball combination is required with moderate or heavy powder loads.
My .50 caliber TC's will easily shoot under 2 inch diameter groups at 50 yards and 70 grains of powder. I'm sure yours can do the same.
 
Zonie, I am pretty sure the patches were OK. They came literally from the same package that I used shooting the 54 a couple weeks ago and I was getting good accuracy with charges up to 90 grains. I thought the patches might be failing so I tracked down a bunch of them in front of my shooting position and they looked fine. Still in one piece, no tears or holes, etc.
 
My experience with a TC Hawken is it works best with a tight patch. I always used the blue mattress ticking from a fabric store and spit patch. It took a sharp whack with a ball starter to get the .490 ball started. My limitation with most of my guns these days are my eyes.

Dutch's system should be a good way to get the best out of a TC original barrel.
 
When my brother set about to develop a hunting load for his .54 Renegade he started heavy on the powder charge and worked towards making it accurate. Ended up needing tight patches and paper over the powder to get heavy charge accuracy.
 
- Are these truly drop in with no fitting?
- what kind of accuracy should I expect from round ball loads once I find what the barrel likes?
- Will a ramrod for a standard 28 inch hawken barrel fit on one of the round ball barrels?
- anything else I should know?

Pretty much a drop in but might need a very little fine file work on the lug.

They are quality barrels and should be very accurate with RB.

The ramrod probably won't fit. Check the barrel length of the drop in. It's probably a few inches longer. Depends on who assembled it.

Anything else?

There is no guarantee that the new barrel will solve the problems. If there is something in your components or Loading procedure that won't work in the TC barrel it may not work in the drop in!
 
Pretty much a drop in but might need a very little fine file work on the lug.

They are quality barrels and should be very accurate with RB.

The ramrod probably won't fit. Check the barrel length of the drop in. It's probably a few inches longer. Depends on who assembled it.

Anything else?

There is no guarantee that the new barrel will solve the problems. If there is something in your components or Loading procedure that won't work in the TC barrel it may not work in the drop in!

Thanks. I am eyeing the ones at track of the wolf, which seem to be complete assemblies. Not in the budget at the moment, but GM does have a very good reputation.

I can't rule out that it isn't something I am doing. That said, I get good accuracy out of the TC grey hawk with 530 round balls even with fairly hefty powder charges. Both rifles shoot well with various types of conicals. It occurred to me yesterday that my 490 round balls were all cast with a really old, well used Lyman mold and there is a possibility that the balls are out of round, inconsistent, etc. I have a new Lee 2 banger in 490, so the next time I find the time to do a black powder casting session I will break out that mold and try balls cast with a different mold. I want to try out the vintage 54 maxi ball mold I picked up anyway, so will have to find the time soon.
 
I got the .54 caliber GM drop in from track for my TC, and it is a tack driver. My go to gun now. I use 70 grains of 3f Goex with .018 pillow ticking around a 530 ball. I ended up switching out the stock too for a Pecatonica grade 3 maple stock. Just a little wood work and it fit fine, also added the iron furniture kit from The Hawken shop too.
 

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I shoot a .490 ball with an .015 ticking patch pushed by 75gr of Goex 2F and get about 2" groups at 50 yards with my TC Hawken. I can't get a .495 ball down the bore with any patch and probably not with a hammer, this surprised me as I had shot .495s in a bunch of TC guns. This is a very old, 30 year +, TC kit gun that I put together a couple of years ago.
 
I never had a problem with my old TC and it shot 5 shots into one ragged hole with a RB or Maxi at 50. My problem was the gun never fit me. The stock was not made for a human so I made my own guns. Heavy clothing and hunting for sights did the TC in. I think the original TC was better and the 1 in 48" rate was OK. Later guns like the easy load would not shoot anything and I do not know what changed other then rifling depth.
 
I shoot a .490 ball with an .015 ticking patch pushed by 75gr of Goex 2F and get about 2" groups at 50 yards with my TC Hawken. I can't get a .495 ball down the bore with any patch and probably not with a hammer, this surprised me as I had shot .495s in a bunch of TC guns. This is a very old, 30 year +, TC kit gun that I put together a couple of years ago.

I haven't tried a .495 ball, but my .490 with .015 ticking combo is tight as well. I think I would have the same results as you with .495. I'm still fiddling with the load development. It shoots pretty well with 70gr of 3f Black Diamond that I have, but when I set up my TC Impact for my granddaughter to use, we found that it liked Pyrodex RS WAY better than the 3f stuff, so I think I'm going to give that a try in the Hawken. I've got a couple pounds of RS, so I hope it works. I'd like to try 2f black, but I just had to order a dozen arrow shafts. I don't want to have to explain to the boss my "need" of black powder. I can't find any locally, so shipping is kind of a killer.
 
I got the .54 caliber GM drop in from track for my TC, and it is a tack driver. My go to gun now. I use 70 grains of 3f Goex with .018 pillow ticking around a 530 ball. I ended up switching out the stock too for a Pecatonica grade 3 maple stock. Just a little wood work and it fit fine, also added the iron furniture kit from The Hawken shop too.

So is it still a TC if all that's left is the lock and trigger? :ghostly:
 
My Renegade is very finicky about the amount and type of patch lube. I can open/close groups just by changing the amount of lube used, let alone the type of lube.
For example, I tried some of the TOTW mink oil a while back. I lubed the patches by rubbing one side across the lube 4 or 5 times (it is fairly firm), and then rubbed it in and out to the edges with my thumbs, result was lubed enough to fill the weave of the patch. 4" groups off sand bags at 50 yards. I recently tried it again but this time I ran the patch over the lube only one time and then rubbed it in. You can barely tell there's lube on the patch. Clover leaf at 50 yards. I also do pretty well with a 6:1 ratio of denatured alcohol & castor oil, it really seems to prefer very, very light amount of lube. Mine is a .54, but I'm using a pillow ticking patch at .018" with a .530" ball, it requires a very firm smack on the starter to get it into the barrel, you can't just put pressure on it to get it to start. Same with pushing it down on top of the powder on a fouled barrel, I have to grab the ram rod 8" above the bore and push it down a little at a time. It is a pretty firm fit. I swab one damp patch pass and one dry patch pass between each shot too. It absolutely won't shoot worth a hoot without being swabbed every shot. Surprisingly it will also shoot a prelubed store bought TC patch fairly well if they aren't too old, .015" cotton patch lubed with their "Natural Loob 1000".
 
I bought a GM barrel for my TC Hawken I went with a .54 with the 1-66 twist. Accuracy wise it's my most accurate roundball rifle I own.
It wasn't exactly a drop in fit some sanding close to the tang on each side of barrel channel.. I ordered the track of wolf delrin brown 32 5/8 rod. For th GM barrel if you don't have a rod. Or an extension you will have to get one
 
Trouble with round ball...
Did you ever do a really really close inspection to make sure there is no leading from shooting the various lubed lead bullets?
Just something was thinking about. It can happen.
 
PS,
If that .50 Hawken barrel won't shoot you could always have it turned into a .52 with round ball rifling. TC rifling cleans up real quick on a rebore. Or you could make it a .52 bore for paper patched fifty rifle (450-500 grain molds) molds and also shoot round ball in it but it'd probably make that TC Hawken into a shoulder wrecking jack hammer. My .52's (heavy barrel Renegades) are set up that way with the "kinder, gentler" shotgun butts.

Don't recommember where it was I found my .515 round ball mold but they're out there somewhere.
 
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