The Pocket in the powder.

When I first started shooting flint, for a time I used to put a feather in the touch hole, then loaded, remove the feather and prime, on the theory I had read somewhere that that created a "pocket" in the main charge, which helped ignition, or made it faster, because then the flash could ignite further into the main charge. ? It seemed to work "okay". Certainly never had a miss fire because of it, that I recall. I only tried it with my Bess, and gave it up before I got my Jeager.

I've since learned, at least for me and my rifle and musket, that having the powder packed up against the touch hole seems to give me the best ignition. That's why I like 1fg against the touch hole, just packs up against it nice, stays put, and SEEMS to give me the best bang for the buck.

Has anyone else ever done this, or still does it, and what are your thoughts on it? Just curious. I haven't really heard this discussed lately, if ever. ?

I hope this post will be allowed to stay as it talks about cartridge guns but I think it reinforces your idea. A friend used to shoot black powder cartridge, a compressed load of 3f in a 45-70. He found ignition was much better with about 10 grains (if I remember his load correctly) of 1f in the base of the case. He felt and I agree though I never tried it that the flame from the primer could travel through the spaces between the grains better than between the grains of a compressed charge of 3f giving quicker and surer ingition.

Could not disagree more!
The primer flame in a cartridge is trapped and thus creates pressure in it self. The intense hot jet is going to ignite the powder.
A flame from a pan is low pressure. We rely purely on the flame washing over a very flammable substance. Any increase in the surface area of the flammable surface will trump a lesser surface area when the ignition source is low pressure as in a pan of powder burning.

From my limited experience with fg , ffg, they seem to ignite slower than fffg in my flint guns. Not much but slower, I find if I pick the vent with the larger grain powder it ignites quicker than if not picked.

I seem too get more klatches with fg than ffg or fffg.

I’ve found that enlarging the touch hole helped tremendously when shooting fg....

Other’s mileage may vary...

I've noticed much less misfiring when picking the touch hole just prior to adding primer to the pan. I load then pick the touch hole afterward. Just far enough to clear the vent. Seems to work better for me this way.

After loading the rifle I always run a vent pick into the main charge, wipe the pan and face of the frizzen as well as the contact edge of the flint. and then prime. Very seldom have I had a flash in the pan. I always use goex 3f for the main charge and prime with goex 4f, All my flinters are fast on the ignition.

Interesting, ya, an increase in surface area makes sense in theory. Hawk's idea has some merit, but being a BP cartridge shooter I'm not sure how one would tell the difference in a BP cartridge, (other than seeing a difference in accuracy) and BP cartridge shooters have all sorts of methods, techniques and voodoo surrounding primers and powder, including small amounts of smokeless powder over the primer, thin "wads" of very thin paper over the primer, and other things. (I'm not quite that OCD about it.)

Maybe it's all a matter of perception, and without slow speed photography and actually measuring the time between the trigger pull and the boom, pretty hard to say. I can't imagine my Jeager having any faster ignition than it does, and I like to see the powder up against the hole, not an empty space. But others get best results with the pick...!!? Or maybe it's the over-think thing, as long as the lock is good, and loading technique is good, flint is positioned good, then ignition is going to be good. ?

On the other hand, I think picking the vent is valuable when target shooting, or firing a series of shots, as crud will get pushed down to the breech when loading. I had to pick my vent the other day when shooting my Jeager, as cleaning the barrel between shots does the same thing, pushes some crud down to the breech. I generally think in terms of that first shot, from a clean barrel, and a meticulously clean rifle, when hunting.

Thanks for the replies.

In the rare instances when I put a pick/feather/etc in the flash hole when loading, it is only done to keep any powder from blowing out of the touch hole. very little ever does come out, just a few granules at most.

The question, as I understand it, is whether or not you should feather.

I would take a friend to the range, and ask him or her to bring a quarter. This will need to be a good and patient friend: one who can pretty accurately reproduce your loading technique. Before each load sequence, he or she should flip the coin and if it comes up 'heads,' your loader puts the feather in and if it's 'tails,' then not. Your friend closes the pan and you don't know if the load was feathered or not. You must note where each shot strikes, so a spotting scope is in order.

Shoot about twenty rounds (although I believe that 32 is the minimum for statistical reliability … I will ask my youngest daughter - she is much better at calculus than I) … OK - shoot fifty rounds. Your friend will of course have written down which shots were feathered and which were not, and then you will know whether or not it makes any difference in accuracy.

Then you will know … I would be interested to find out, but this test will only apply to your particular gun.

You will owe your friend BIG TIME, inasmuch as this procedure (from his or her perspective) will be about as exciting as watching moss grow. A nice dinner will be in order, or a bottle of single malt scotch, or something like that.

good luck, and Make Good Smoke

I started using the information printed in the sticky under the "how to" section. I think it was Claude Mathis that recommends not pushing the ball tight against the powder, but just touching; then picking the touch hole inwards to clear it of powder from the main charge. Then bank the flashpan away from the touch hole about half way. I tried this and it works alot better than my old method of packing the touch hole and banking the flashpan against it. You want the flash from the pan to shoot directly thru into the main charge, not burn it's way in like a fuse.

MSW said:

...one who can pretty accurately reproduce your loading technique...

Click to expand...

Or they can feather or not feather, then pull a bag over the butt and lock. You then load the piece, hand it back, they remove the bag and feather if present.

Used to get "typical," "clatch, bang," ignition and occasional flashes of the pan with no bang. I leave the pick wire in place while I load, not removing it until I prime and have had no flashes of the pan or ignition delays since. I have posted this including description and pics of pick/wire several times, sorry I don't have the drive to repost it all now.

I just got my first ever flintlock. I can't believe I never tried one earlier!
Anyways, I'm using 3f for the load and the pan (not too much in the pan), and am getting pretty fast ignition and no flashes yet. I have a couple of friends I'm shooting with who have shot flintlocks for many years. They both commented on the fast ignition. No feather or picking after the main load is working good for me!

I'm thinking there's more than one way to skin that cat. I'll be sticking to my method of using 1f up against the touch hole, when loading for a hunt, but the comments above give me a better understanding, and I see using a feather, or the pick when loading works well also. I think that the pick or feather would serve well to prevent crud from blocking the touch hole, and perhaps when target shooting I may revert to the method.

Robwright, indeed, for sure, if the prime gets banked up against the touch hole, ignition will be delayed. And sometimes, when Big Buck steps out of a bush, and you don't have time to check the prime, that will happen, which is why follow through is so important.

A "Clinker" can come loose from the chamber wall and it takes a vent pick to poke a hole in it and move it just a little. The cause of a "Clinker" is too much wiping. Shooters who don't do a lot of wiping don't need to worry about a "Clinker". If you've never heard of a "Clinker" you may be to young. This was a term from way back.
My prime works best either flat in the pan or banked slightly away from the touchhole. I use a 3 grain priming tool, I push one time only and spread the prime out. I get almost instant ignition this way.

Robwright, indeed, for sure, if the prime gets banked up against the touch hole, ignition will be delayed. And sometimes, when Big Buck steps out of a bush, and you don't have time to check the prime, that will happen, which is why follow through is so important.[/QUOTE]

That dont really happen. Big buck knows weather your powder is up agin the hole er banked away and he aint stepping a foot out till ya mis fire on his lil cousin (cousins step out of the bush folks). Then big buck will step out and walk slowly towards ya, twitch the big ears and trot off. Least thats the more truthful way of seein it

Darkhorse, We had a coal furnace in the house when I was little so I know what a clinker is. I also know they scrape like heck when you skid on one where they were dumped in the lane.

Maybe you can explain what the heck Pat Robertson meant by "clinkers" a while back.

Pat Robertson?

A clinker is a chunk of rock that is formed when burning coal. It is often fairly light, but hard and contains holes and sharp edges. At least that is what came out of our old coal stoves when I was a kid. It is the stuff that won't burn in coal.

I didn't read the post by Pat Robertson so i can't explain what he meant.
But this is what I meant by "Clinker", it is the fouling built up in the barrel. Most of the time it is shot out with each new loading if the proper fitting PRB and lube are used. But if one is constantly wiping between shots then some of this fouling is pushed down and blocks the touch hole. When an attempt is made to fire the rifle the clinker blocks the fire from the prime and you have a "flash in the pan" but no ignition. When this happens it is called a "Clinker" or "Klinker".
I always took the term for granted until today. I have no experience burning coal. But I can see now how it can relate to a blocked touch hole. And those old guys who have moved on would know about "Clinkers" from coal burning.