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THOUGHTS ON EXPERTISE

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Joined
Jul 8, 2004
Messages
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Location
GREATER ST. LOUIS COUNTY
AFTER36 OR SO YEARS I HAVE MADE A FEW OBSERVATIONS.
The greatest Expert.
The most consulted expert is usually the last guy you talked to at the range. Now the next day at the range that guy didn't make it out there but there will be a different and so you ask him for advice which you accept without question even though might disagree with the expert of last week.
Of course there is the guy with all those new rifles at hand. The clerk at Cabela's or some guy at a gun show. If you follow these experts in every detail even though it has become contradictor. This may lead to stuttering. It will very probably never lead to any accuracy.
Now if the last guy you talked is allowed, to the exclusion of all others. can give you his entire system from loading to cleaning at day's end you might get some consistent information that helps you on you effort to get any accuracy getting information from a number of Last Guys Is probably going to end up with cats even though each of those guys may have good advice if you stuck to just one man's guidance.
CHERRY PICKING
In my own case I [resnt my theory and practices on how to correctly select the exact compressed thickness of you shooting patches that requires some thought and maybe some measurements with micrometer. That's kind of scary so we'll just skip that pat and get on to some fine tuning
ideas that I present to really improve your groups. The first choice is usually My Dry Patch Lubrication which allows you to remove up and down hits on the target. This not to likely to be totally successful because it is aim to make slight adjustments to the accuracy you never experienced because you skipped as being sort of mathematical. . Another cherry picked items where people can understand because it demonstrates how ooff balance swaged balls can bi.
A good example was a subscriber who leaped on to the Dry Patch System with requires to make 4 or 5 strips of shooting patches with ever amounts of decreasing lubrication using a water soluble oil in water which is then allowed to evaporate leaving only the slightly lubricated cloth strips.
My recent subscriber didn't use a water soluble oil. Hr used Hoppies number something which is a good product but which doesn't work in the Dry Patch System in any way
I then get a cale my system doesn't work.
i was accused of being a critic of Hoppes which is probably a great product but not right for this application. I would have it for brekfast if my medical overseers would allow it. I wouldn't use it as an eye drop either but it still remains a worthwhile product if used the its intended purpose.

I don't know how they do it but there are a number of people getting great accuracy with methods I don't quit understand. But if you need help. get itbfrom one source and don't toss in bits and pieces from that last guy/

There is a Mr. Teransky. who followed my suggestions to the letter who got a number rifles shooting one hole groups in about a month. He didn't cherry pick. He just stuck to the procedures al the way with only one deviation and his success was complete.
I take great pride in his success.

Whoever you use as a guide in your quest for accuracy. don't get distracted by that ever changing source is wisdom who was the last guy you talked to at the range.

Dutch Schoultz

i
 
In my experience wisdom isn't a blanket coverage and it always comes in "degrees" or "levels". A shooter/builder/historian will ultimately know a lot about a spot here, a spot there and nothing really about this area over here. It takes long (more or less) experience for someone/anyone to earn a good grasp of "what makes a good flint", the best powder for a job, where to shoot deer, not to mention ball size, patch material, lube, you name it. Most of what is offered as advice is merely "opinion" and is normally no better or worse than than advice from someone with less experience. Really, now, experts - as commonly understood - DO NOT EXIST when it comes to the ins and outs of muzzleloading. There are pretty good authorities on styles, history, etc. But they know very little more, if that, about the other aspects than the guy who's been into the sport only 5 or 10 years. Think PhD - Pile it Higher and Deeper. Or think of it as learning more and more about less and less. I have my area of expertise, but I'm no expert. Despite the degrees, academic and otherwise, it would be foolish for me to claim to be an expert on anything. There have been a few (very) "renaissance men", but none, I'm sure, writing about muzzleloaders.

Okay, so we have no experts; only certain individuals who know a lot about certain little things. What about celebrated gun builders and the art they produce? Well, they ARE incredibly knowledgeable about anything to do with gun building; but they seldom agree with one another, hhhmmm... Other than that, well, they are about like the rest of us. Certain laws of physics/chemistry are, as far as we know, immutable. These can be a basis for a "pretty sure this is right". Different strokes for different folks and if it works for you it's some degree of right, guaranteed.
 
In my muzzloadimg journey, I've found it best to listen to those who have been/are successful as a starting point. Experiment, record result, reevaluate, change ONE variable, repeat process. What works in my gun might be marginal in yours. Without a methodical process, yer just guessin.
 
First thing I try to get clear is this is what I do and it works for me. It may work for you but all guns are different and knowing the basics of powder, patch and projectile will make your experiments achieve what you want. Should the basics not provide then explore alternatives of the basics. If nothing work like it should look at the gun and what you may be doing.
 
For a little over 60 years now I've taught marksmanship to literally thousands of individuals, men, women, teenagers; rifle marksmanship and handguns. I was fortunate in the fact that I had some really great instructors early on and as I was assigned to the All-Army Marksmanship Unit out of Ft. Benning Georgia I had an everyday opportunity to practice what had been preached to me concerning all of the rules that apply to marksmanship training! What is my point?

Just the fact that in the early stages of my teaching I discovered that many men think that just because they're men
that they are natural born shooters and pay little attention to training! On the other hand when teaching a woman
they listen to EACH AND EVERY WORD and apply what they have been informed about! If they don't understand
something they ask questions concerning the issue! They don't have an ego problem which makes it quite easy
for the instructor to teach!

No matter how smart we think we are....there's always SOMEONE that knows a tat more about an issue than ourselves
and it pays to drop the ego....and listen!

HOLD HARD & STAY CENTER!
 
I've been around the gun game long enough that I don't need advice anymore. I've made enough mistakes over the years and have learned from them. I've taken advice from a few, very few, those that I just got good vibes from. I learned from these fellows as well. I now give advice but only to those whom I sense will really use it. In my years on this earth I've become pretty good at spotting fools. And as they say not to give advice because a wise man doesn't need it and a fool won't take it.

And the last person I'd listen to these days is the guy at the range.......no offense meant to anyone here.
 
I've been shooting for a long time now too and I like to think I know quite a lot about shooting black powder. One of the lessons I have learned is to leave the ego out of your shooting procedure. Listen to what others are observing about your shooting procedure. Learn and apply these lessons. Now that I have aged some and my eyes and physical stamina have changed, there are many aspects of shooting that I have to learn all over again. I need to get my sights to work for my old eyes now and re learn how to get a good sight picture. I need to condition my muscles to properly hold my rifle on target. I need to once again learn the necessary breathing and concentration practices to follow through as I shoot.
 
AFTER36 OR SO YEARS I HAVE MADE A FEW OBSERVATIONS.
The greatest Expert.
The most consulted expert is usually the last guy you talked to at the range. Now the next day at the range that guy didn't make it out there but there will be a different and so you ask him for advice which you accept without question even though might disagree with the expert of last week.
Of course there is the guy with all those new rifles at hand. The clerk at Cabela's or some guy at a gun show. If you follow these experts in every detail even though it has become contradictor. This may lead to stuttering. It will very probably never lead to any accuracy.
Now if the last guy you talked is allowed, to the exclusion of all others. can give you his entire system from loading to cleaning at day's end you might get some consistent information that helps you on you effort to get any accuracy getting information from a number of Last Guys Is probably going to end up with cats even though each of those guys may have good advice if you stuck to just one man's guidance.
CHERRY PICKING
In my own case I [resnt my theory and practices on how to correctly select the exact compressed thickness of you shooting patches that requires some thought and maybe some measurements with micrometer. That's kind of scary so we'll just skip that pat and get on to some fine tuning
ideas that I present to really improve your groups. The first choice is usually My Dry Patch Lubrication which allows you to remove up and down hits on the target. This not to likely to be totally successful because it is aim to make slight adjustments to the accuracy you never experienced because you skipped as being sort of mathematical. . Another cherry picked items where people can understand because it demonstrates how ooff balance swaged balls can bi.
A good example was a subscriber who leaped on to the Dry Patch System with requires to make 4 or 5 strips of shooting patches with ever amounts of decreasing lubrication using a water soluble oil in water which is then allowed to evaporate leaving only the slightly lubricated cloth strips.
My recent subscriber didn't use a water soluble oil. Hr used Hoppies number something which is a good product but which doesn't work in the Dry Patch System in any way
I then get a cale my system doesn't work.
i was accused of being a critic of Hoppes which is probably a great product but not right for this application. I would have it for brekfast if my medical overseers would allow it. I wouldn't use it as an eye drop either but it still remains a worthwhile product if used the its intended purpose.

I don't know how they do it but there are a number of people getting great accuracy with methods I don't quit understand. But if you need help. get itbfrom one source and don't toss in bits and pieces from that last guy/

There is a Mr. Teransky. who followed my suggestions to the letter who got a number rifles shooting one hole groups in about a month. He didn't cherry pick. He just stuck to the procedures al the way with only one deviation and his success was complete.
I take great pride in his success.

Whoever you use as a guide in your quest for accuracy. don't get distracted by that ever changing source is wisdom who was the last guy you talked to at the range.

Dutch Schoultz

i
Ya know, you are correct and it works. Even a small amount of thickness like a cigarette paper under the patch helps and you know I like to engrave the ball .005" at the groove. Denim is by far the best patch material but you will be stared at with your micrometer in the store! The material must be compressed to measure so the thingy on the tool must be bypassed. A small ball and thin patch for easy loading does not make accuracy.
What have I learned from you? Not a whole lot since 68 years of ML's led me to the same conclusions.
New shooters should listen to you and just maybe my ideas too.
I might be the first to thank you for your work my friend.
At my age I need a bottle of Jack to hold a gun steady. I fear stabbing my face with a fork. Goblins' swing on my barrels.
 
For a little over 60 years now I've taught marksmanship to literally thousands of individuals, men, women, teenagers; rifle marksmanship and handguns. I was fortunate in the fact that I had some really great instructors early on and as I was assigned to the All-Army Marksmanship Unit out of Ft. Benning Georgia I had an everyday opportunity to practice what had been preached to me concerning all of the rules that apply to marksmanship training! What is my point?

Just the fact that in the early stages of my teaching I discovered that many men think that just because they're men
that they are natural born shooters and pay little attention to training! On the other hand when teaching a woman
they listen to EACH AND EVERY WORD and apply what they have been informed about! If they don't understand
something they ask questions concerning the issue! They don't have an ego problem which makes it quite easy
for the instructor to teach!

No matter how smart we think we are....there's always SOMEONE that knows a tat more about an issue than ourselves
and it pays to drop the ego....and listen!

HOLD HARD & STAY CENTER!
Tell me something! My daughter would bust a bottle at 75 yards off hand with a flintlock. She went into the Marines and out shot even the men. Highest score ever shot. Soon the Corps promoted high shooters after she shot.
 
I had 35 yrs + shooting when I got "the Dutch System". I will never consider myself an expert. @ main variables in his system I had never ever considered. These made a HUGE difference for me. His system is kinda like acupuncture, I dont believe in it but it works! So if you dont have a headache dont stick needles in ya, if yer happy with yer group dont get "the system". If yer like me, open minded and ALWAYS ready to improve, well all I can say is it WORKS!

A dont offer advise on much UNLESS I'm asked. I know enough about most things to help others a lil bit, then they improve and wonder over to "the next guy" and pick up some more (and maybe share it with me?)

BTW I was pretty happy with my shooting BEFORE I got the system, still pretty happy. Someday maybe I will pick up some more and get even a bit better, BUT I will never be the best. What I need is a GOOD flintlock and a Guy (like so many here) to give me pointers.
 
Dr5x,

The subject line of your thread caught my attention as I'm new to BP shooting, so I read through it. Found the thread interesting, and I did further digging and looked at your website. There I read the title followed by the brief comment about accuracy:

Black Powder Rifle Accuracy System

"Accuracy of any muzzle loading black powder rifle, percussion or flintlock, can be improved with this system."

I only have a BP percussion pistol, and quite enthused about learning how to take care of it and shoot it well. I'd like to find out if your system is applicable solely to rifles? Or does it translate to pistols, too? TIA

AFTER36 OR SO YEARS I HAVE MADE A FEW OBSERVATIONS.
 
:ThankYou: Good to know it applies to my pistol. Will be ordering.

Since I'm at the start of my BP days, and there is so much to learn, this system could be a help. I'd like to get really, really good with this pistol. So much to learn, and that should keep me busy for quite a while. I also hope to carve out a bunch of range time.

Thanks again, Grenadier.

Dutch's system is applicable to all rifled muzzle loading firearms. There is some benefit to smoothbores, but not as much as to rifles. Besides you will be getting a rifle eventually.
 
On the other hand when teaching a woman
they listen to EACH AND EVERY WORD and apply what they have been informed about! If they don't understand
something they ask questions concerning the issue! They don't have an ego problem which makes it quite easy
for the instructor to teach!

This is quite true, if only based on my personal observations. I was a guest instructor at several "lady handgunner" clinics held at a local range in Raleigh in the 1980's. IF they had a man with them, the men had to leave (we had a special event for the men on the range farthest from where the women were training). The reason was their male companions made them nervous, AND there was ALWAYS some yahoo among the men that wanted to...how should I write this?...."help out" :mad: the instructor. These guys NEVER knew what they were doing either. So with the men gone, they could relax, and ya know miracle upon miracles they all ended the day being good shots at Self-defense distances. ;)

LD
 
The best expert I like to talk too is one that has had a multitude of failures, maybe I won't make the same mistakes if I diligently listen.
Yes ..., I'm not expert, just remember mistakes...I'm a member of several small groups that can tell you on certain specific subjects, "I tried that, but it didn't work for me." OR better yet, "Save your money, as that isn't durable". Things like that. OH and if I say, "I wouldn't do that..." then move away quickly and yell to the bystanders, "SEEK SHELTER" it means I have personal experience that whatever you're doing is probably unsafe, and I got lucky in the past and kept my fingers and both eyes, doing that. :oops:

I usually quietly watch a person, and when they show they are good at some task that interests me, I compliment them on their skill, then I ask them how they do that. Usually they share, but sometimes they don't.

LD
 
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