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The Case for the Lowly Bore Brush

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AlanG

32 Cal.
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I've been shooting a lot this year, and have decided to revisit certain methods, and to try some new ones- just for fun, and I try to avoid being a dogmatic person whenever I can.

Picture below shows three patches from a .45 Pedersoli which was cleaned using the normal water/dish soap pumping method. The pictures are a bit misleading because the wrinkles in them cause greyish shadows.

Patch on left was the last dry patch out- It is snow white, and anyone would pronounce that the rifle is squeaky clean.

Middle patch was run down 5 minutes later- it was soaked in Ballistol (3 parts water, 1 part Balli.) and run up and down the bore a few times. it may look like it picked up some color, but it really is due to the opalescent color Ballistol dries to and the above mentioned shadows.

That patch was followed by a bore brushed soaked in the 3-1 Ballistol mix, which provides some lube for the brush also. Down the bore, pumped around 5 times in the breach area and then removed.

Third patch was moistened with Ballistol and run down the bore just once on each side. That pic is a pretty fair representation. You can clearly see the grooves, and the flats are relatively clean only showing the tinge of the dried Ballistol.

I'm not saying that amount of color would cause a (at least short term) problem, but it sure isn't the "perfectly clean bore" everyone seems to claim all of the time either.

I should point out an undersized brush (.40 in this case) was used to avoid any possibility of it getting stuck.

cEiT1MD.jpg
 
I'd say you test or analysis is skewed by the introduction of variables.
 
If the brush was not new could some of the color be from the brush?
Being as I don't use new brush every time I find it good to thoroughly brush the barrel then plug the nipple, fill the barrel with cleaning solution and let it sit about 30 minutes. Then go at it with dry patches. If it doesn't come clean at 4 or 5 patches scrub with wet patch the repeat dry. Soaking the barrel also get the channel too.
 
If the brush was not new could some of the color be from the brush?

Not really. The gun was "clean" before the brush was used- different than the scenario in which you use the brush. I should mention that I have waited a few days and redid the same procedure on the gun and patches came out white this time- and I have done this with different guns with similar results.
 
Not really. The gun was "clean" before the brush was used- different than the scenario in which you use the brush. I should mention that I have waited a few days and redid the same procedure on the gun and patches came out white this time- and I have done this with different guns with similar results.

No!, yes really. It's not clear what claim exactly you are making, but, I think we have all had similar happen.
A freshly cleaned barrel can oxidize ( I say oxidize not rust) or your preserving agent can oxidize or chemically react, changing patch color days later, especially in an alkaline environment created by things like soap or ballistol.
As time goes by other factors like dust, or lead can change patch color.
A brush can introduce dirt into the equation as well as additional metals.
All can change patch color.
 
No!, yes really. It's not clear what claim exactly you are making, but, I think we have all had similar happen.
A freshly cleaned barrel can oxidize ( I say oxidize not rust) or your preserving agent can oxidize or chemically react, changing patch color days later,

I think you missed the jist of my post- if you read the back half of the first sentence you would see I'm not making any claims. I was more interested in a semi rational conversation as opposed to the knee jerk stuff that happens when cleaning, or god forbid WD-40 gets mentioned.

All of those patches were done in a 10 minute at most time span, really no time for fresh oxidation.

For decades bore brushes were considered must haves (at least in Northeast) when cleaning muzzleloaders, yet really don't get mention for the past 20 or so- that's why I was revisiting it, and it certainly has made me add them to the mix since it really doesn't add more than a minute to cleaning time.
 
I think you missed the jist of my post- if you read the back half of the first sentence you would see I'm not making any claims. I was more interested in a semi rational conversation as opposed to the knee jerk stuff that happens when cleaning, or god forbid WD-40 gets mentioned.

All of those patches were done in a 10 minute at most time span, really no time for fresh oxidation.

For decades bore brushes were considered must haves (at least in Northeast) when cleaning muzzleloaders, yet really don't get mention for the past 20 or so- that's why I was revisiting it, and it certainly has made me add them to the mix since it really doesn't add more than a minute to cleaning time.
Brushes were popular as said, but not traditional and a lot of boys clean traditionally. It works.
Howsomever, as long as you clean your gun you’ve done it the right way. I don’t reckon there is any wrong way as long as it’s cleaned dried and oiled to protect it.
I’ve got a few brushes about, I just don’t recall how long it’s been since I used it.
 
"I’ve got a few brushes about, I just don’t recall how long it’s been since I used it."

That was my point. Why did you stop? I did, couldn't remember why, so I tried again on an already Clean gun- 45 seconds later I'm pulling out color. I've checked that gun daily since I did it, and patches are still coming clean. In Carbon 6's post above he talks about getting color on patches "days later"- perhaps because bore brushes are out of fashion?

I wasn't starting a thread on cleaning per se, but to revisit things that I got away from, but couldn't really remember why?


"Brushes were popular as said, but not traditional and a lot of boys clean traditionally. It works."

That was kind of my second point- that gun was cleaned "traditionally", and any and everyone would have pronounced that gun squeaky clean- yet 5 minutes later it ain't? I don't think that's rare either, but how many people check there guns later and are honest about the results?

I do have to disagree about your comment about cleaning traditional though- what's traditional? Traditional sure isn't putting dish detergent in the water, and there is nothing traditional about using a modern cotton patch and a jag. A bore brush is as, or more traditional than a cleaning jag.

Flint era of course would have meant tow and a worm, but I know for a fact from period magazines that by the late percussion era bore brushes were common. In fact, at some point bore solvents became more prevalent than water, and certainly in Northern New England Hoppes #9 became the go to gun cleaning method, whether black powder or nitro- even Ned Roberts switched.
 
Hoppes #9 was invented in 1903 by Frank August Hoppe specifically as a solvent for cleaning nitro powder fouling along with the debris left from the corrosive primers used at the time from the barrel. It never was intended to be used for cleaning black powder fouling.
 
Zonie- yeah I knew that. Nonetheless it absolutely was used for cleaning black powder guns. It does work too. And as I said even Ned Roberts abandoned water cleanup in favor of Hoppes and/or other solvents of his day.

Not that it matters- just was bringing full circle of what exactly "traditional" cleaning is and how it changes/thought of.
 
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"I’ve got a few brushes about, I just don’t recall how long it’s been since I used it."

That was my point. Why did you stop? I did, couldn't remember why, so I tried again on an already Clean gun- 45 seconds later I'm pulling out color. I've checked that gun daily since I did it, and patches are still coming clean. In Carbon 6's post above he talks about getting color on patches "days later"- perhaps because bore brushes are out of fashion?

I wasn't starting a thread on cleaning per se, but to revisit things that I got away from, but couldn't really remember why?


"Brushes were popular as said, but not traditional and a lot of boys clean traditionally. It works."

That was kind of my second point- that gun was cleaned "traditionally", and any and everyone would have pronounced that gun squeaky clean- yet 5 minutes later it ain't? I don't think that's rare either, but how many people check there guns later and are honest about the results?

I do have to disagree about your comment about cleaning traditional though- what's traditional? Traditional sure isn't putting dish detergent in the water, and there is nothing traditional about using a modern cotton patch and a jag. A bore brush is as, or more traditional than a cleaning jag.

Flint era of course would have meant tow and a worm, but I know for a fact from period magazines that by the late percussion era bore brushes were common. In fact, at some point bore solvents became more prevalent than water, and certainly in Northern New England Hoppes #9 became the go to gun cleaning method, whether black powder or nitro- even Ned Roberts switched.
I wouldn’t try to talk anyone out of using a brush, nor would I tell you my cleaning method is better then yours.
I cleaned this gun with tow and hot water. Fill then dump fill and dump, followed by damp tow. Then dry tow a few passes.
I did make sure it was dry with patch on a jag and then oiled with a jag patch.
This patch here is about a month since I cleaned it.
So I would say as Rifleman says it’s a ‘Do your own thang’ sport. That’s the beauty of a forum like this, we get to tell others what works for us and the others can try it or not and and sometimes it works for others too,
Thanks for sharing what you’ve found
 
Zonie- yeah I knew that. Nonetheless it absolutely was used for cleaning black powder guns. It does work too. .
I have to disagree again.
I will agree that people used it. I disagree that it works. Urine would be just as effective.
I cannot in good conscience ever recommend Hoppes#9 for use on a muzzleloader.
 
Yes. There is a Hoppe's "9 Black Powder Solvent and Patch Lubricant" for black powder guns.

For the life of me I don't know why they called it a #9. Seems like something intended to confuse people.
I would have been happier if they would have called it #10 or anything except #9.

I haven't used it but from what I've read, it works very will. Just what I would expect to see from that company. :)
 
I have to disagree again.
I will agree that people used it. I disagree that it works. Urine would be just as effective.
I cannot in good conscience ever recommend Hoppes#9 for use on a muzzleloader.

Carbon 6- I don't see where we or you disagreed in the first place?

I wasn't recommending it, but have you tried it? I have, it does work just fine, though with today's choices kind of a moot point.
Ballistol was never intended to clean black powder either, nor Murphy's oil soap or Simply Green etc. I've always found it ironic that in such a traditional sport, made up of largely conservative (not in the political way) people, that I don't think there is any substance that hasn't been poured down a muzzleloader's barrel.
 
I would have been happier if they would have called it #10 or anything except #9.

i think it's just a standard part of their label at this point- virtually all of their products have the #9 on it, even their newer non-traditional stuff aimed for the semi-auto guys.

It does work great BTW- never heard anyone say anything bad about it (except price) kind of Smells like the Nitro stuff too. Probably the kerosene in it.
 
Now I can't tell if your are talking about Hoppes black powder solvent or the original Hoppes #9
Although I have used both.

No big deal though, Folks can use whatever they want, That's what I do.

I gave up on brushes a long time ago because they caused more problems than they solved.
Some folks love brushes, they can have them. I like to keep things simple and cheap.
 
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