What rife would my ancestors have carried in the Civil War?

A casual search of Mom's side of the family shows at least three direct ancestors serving on the Union side of the Civil War. Two of them were in the 95th and 2nd Ohio regiments, both of whom survived. Any way of making an educated guess as to what they would have been armed with? I assume the 1861 Springfield, but don't know a whole lot about how to dig this stuff up.

More than likely the 1861. If they were part of a militia possibly the Zouave. Another would be 1853 Enfield.

I found mine was issued the Enfield
Found it here
http://www.usgennet.org/usa

I think it's pretty unlikely that he used a Zouave.
They seem to be a rifled musket that no one asked for but Remington decided to deliver.

I know there were some heated debates about the Zouave ever being given to any troops, but that seems to have died down and the Civil War reenactment group (N/SSA) recognizes them as acceptable for reenacting and competition.

Even if troops were armed with them it wouldn't have been very many.
I've read that many Zouave's were still in storage at the end of the war and they were eventually sold to Bannerman's for cents on the dollar.

Zonie said:

I think it's pretty unlikely that he used a Zouave.
They seem to be a rifled musket that no one asked for but Remington decided to deliver.

I know there were some heated debates about the Zouave ever being given to any troops, but that seems to have died down and the Civil War reenactment group (N/SSA) recognizes them as acceptable for reenacting and competition.

Even if troops were armed with them it wouldn't have been very many.
I've read that many Zouave's were still in storage at the end of the war and they were eventually sold to Bannerman's for cents on the dollar.

Click to expand...

Zonie, were some Zouaves used by state militias or were they all stored unissued?
Thanks

You have to remember a "state militia" by the time of the ACW was a bit more professionally armed and equipped than during the War of 1812 and especially the AWI. The States for their militias, tended to buy inexpensive, used arms, rather than brand new rifled muskets, unless a wealthy business man was forming his own unit and providing top of the line arms. Probably more than likely militia in Union States would have had 1816 model Springfield muskets (produced up until 1842 or so). They might have had 1842 "Mississippi" rifled-muskets that had been converted over to .58, but these were more common among CSA units. The 1861 Springfield didn't start production until, 1861, and the majority for the first few years ended up in the hands of units attached to the Army of The Potomac.

LD

ppg1949 said:

Zonie, were some Zouaves used by state militias or were they all stored unissued?
Thanks

Click to expand...

I don't have any real good information about who used, or where the Zouave's were used during the war.

If you want to read about it I suggest you put "Zouave rifled musket issued + state" into a search engine like Google. It will come up with thousands of hits and some of them are interesting reading.

Zonie said:

I don't have any real good information about who used, or where the Zouave's were used during the war.

If you want to read about it I suggest you put "Zouave rifled musket issued + state" into a search engine like Google. It will come up with thousands of hits and some of them are interesting reading.

Click to expand...

Thanks LD & Zonie, I'll google it.

The 95th was at Vicksburg and the 2nd was at Bull Run. These parks would be good places to ask.
2) any reenacting groups for these unit would be a great source.

If you're going to ask a reenacting group, make sure to make them cite their sources. Lots of stuff gets made up, mistranslated, and wrong time frame. Been there, seen that.

Well I found some info on the Remington Contract 1863 Rifle a.k.a. Zouave. There was no info on them being issued to state militias but some were found to have been used in TWBTS. One was found in the James River near Petersburg in 1980 by a Nat'l Parks Dept archeologist.. Courtesy Artificer from a 2014 post in this forum, some were used by CSA Marines at Fort Fisher. Speculation is some were used by artillery troops in the forts around D.C. When Grant reduced the size of the troops around D.C. they brought them with them to the front. When sufficient numbers of Springfield's became available, they were traded out. Apparently the name Zouave was a "marketing" name invented by, take your pick, Bannerman, Sears Roebuck or Val Forgett's Navy Arms. Alledgedly Remington copyrighted the name 1863 Contract rifle. Most were accepted and kept at the arsenal but fewer than 2500, if that many, were issued. Also, the Georgia Armory of Midgeville Ga. produced a near identical arm but in extremely low numbers. They were stories of original Zouaves in mint condition selling for $20 in the 1960's. If anyone else has more info, then jump in.
Thanks

I understand that few if any Zouaves were issued, my bet would be the 62 Springfield or the enfield, or one of other European imports.
In fiction the Zouave works just like a Springfield loads like and shoots like any rifles musket of the time.
If your not reinacting it’s a good working WBTS gun

Zou·ave
/ZHo͞oˈäv,ZHwäv/
Learn to pronounce
noun

1. 1.
   a member of a light-infantry corps in the French army, originally formed of Algerians and long retaining their oriental uniform.
2. 2.
   women's trousers with wide tops, tapering to a narrow ankle.
3. Numerous Zouave regiments were organized from soldiers of the United States of America who adopted the name and the North African–inspired uniforms during the American Civil War. ... In 1859, Ellsworth took over a drill company and renamed them the "ZouaveCadets".
   
4. Zouaves
   The Zouave of the French Army was originally recruited in the 1830s from native North African troops but the units were soon made up entirely of Europeans. The Zouave seemed the “beau-ideal of a soldier,” as General George B. McClellan described him. They enjoyed a reputation of being recklessly brave on the battlefield, as though warfare was merely a game and their lives simply the table stakes. They were members of an elite unit with an esprit de corps which bound them together as a family, with the regimental commander known as “Father” among the Zouaves, as the family head. They were also bound together by their distinctive dress. The Arab-inspired short jacket, baggy trousers and fez were key parts of their identity.
   
   
   
   
   Private Francis Brownell in a Zouave Uniform (Library of Congress)
   It was apparently during the Crimean War in 1854 and the Italian-Austrian War of 1859 that the Zouaves received widespread public notice outside France. Newspaper coverage of the conflicts and illustrations in magazines like Harper’s Weekly gave the American public ample opportunity to become familiar with the word Zouave long before the Civil War began. The Zouave uniform and fame was as well known on this side of the Atlantic as in Europe, and it was only natural that there would be Zouave imitators in the New World.
   
   Despite the successes of the Zouave in the Crimean War, it was not until 1859 that the first widely publicized American Zouave unit was formed.
   
   This organization, the United States Zouave Cadets (a company of the 60th Regiment, Illinois State Militia), was created from a moribund Chicago volunteer company by Elmer E. Ellsworth, a young idealist with a military persuasion. Newspapers began carrying accounts of their feats at local drill competitions, and especially, of the brilliant uniforms Ellsworth had designed for his unit. One of the Cadets described the uniform as:
   
   A bright red chasseur cap with gold braid; light blue shirt with moire antique facings; dark blue jacket with orange and red trimmings; brass bell buttons, placed as close together as possible; a red sash and loose red trousers; russet leather leggings, buttoned over the trousers, reaching from ankle halfway to knee; and white waistbelt.
   
   Ellsworth’s Zouaves toured the Northern States challenging all comers to drill competitions, spreading their fame throughout the country, and inspiring the creation of other Zouave units. Although there were Zouave units in America before Ellsworth, it was his regiment that really popularized the style.
   
   The original Zouave French African soldiers wore loose and baggy trousers, a short open jacket and a fez and turban for headgear. This was in actuality the dress of local Turkish and African populace. Originally the dark blue jacket was trimmed with red on the edges only. The vest was also dark blue, with red pants and a blue sash. All garments were made of cotton cloth. The turban and fez were red. While the French Zouave uniform remained fundamentally unchanged from the 1840s until the beginning of the Second World War, American Zouaves wore uniforms that ranged from almost exact copies of the original style to uniforms that were so modified as to be Zouave in name only.
   
   The first Zouave regiment in the Civil War, the 9th New York Volunteer Infantry or Hawkin’s Zouaves, was mustered in on April 23, 1861. Other cities and states in the North and the South also saw the creation of Zouave units. One French language newspaper commented “Ils pleut des Zouaves” (It is raining Zouaves) because there were so many of the units formed in 1861. There were Zouaves present at every major Civil War battle from First Manassas or First Bull Run to Appomattox

And how it became synonymous with the rifle I don't know unless it was a common rifle used that was supplied by the volunteers.

"And how it became synonymous with the rifle I don't know unless it was a common rifle used that was supplied by the volunteers."

A marketing ploy by Val Forgett in the late 1950's. The 1863 Remington was the first Civil War reproduction and the name sounded romantic and exotic. There was no connection with the troops of the same name. The Zouave would not have been carried by the average recruit and definetly not by the militia. They would have been extremely rare and possibly (probably) not issued at all.

I've read much about the 1863 Remington Contract Rifle, (or 1863RCR?) (I no longer use the term "Zouave" which is indeed fabricated) Anyhow, all things considered, and after all opinions are sifted through, it does seem that a very few were issued, (or perhaps more like handed out) and these probably to guards processing prisoners at the end of the war. Many surviving rifles are in very fine condition, which leads me to believe most of them did stay in storage. A couple have been found, as the one in the river, and parts of one have been found on or near some battle site or POW camp, so it does seem that a few just happened to get pulled out of storage and handed out for reasons unknown. I agree with the theory that some were handed out to guards at POW camps. I would agree that none were officially issued to any active units.