Expert help - Is this the original lock ?

TheTyler7011 · Jul 23, 2019

Hello all, I have an 1816 Flintlock Springfield. I took it to this flintlock historian and he thinks it’s a possibility that it’s original lock for 2 reasons (1): It fits very snug and (2): the patina is the same, even on the spring screws. The lock and barrel plug are both matching 1832.

I have no idea how you can really tell. But figured I’d get your opinions. The lock does look identical to the barrel in terms of pitting and patina. But I understand it’s usually rare that they’re original to the gun.

Any thoughts would be appreciated, as well as how you generally come to the conclusion that they’re original or not.

Col. Batguano · Jul 23, 2019

It sure looks consistent with the barrel when it comes to wear and pitting. If it's a replacement, it's likely it was replaced a long time ago, with an original from the immediate time period, which would seem unlikely. Have you pulled it to look at the innards yet?

TheTyler7011 · Jul 23, 2019

Col. Batguano said:
It sure looks consistent with the barrel when it comes to wear and pitting. If it's a replacement, it's likely it was replaced a long time ago, with an original from the immediate time period, which would seem unlikely. Have you pulled it to look at the innards yet?

I have but it just looks like a lock to me! Not sure what to look for.

Col. Batguano · Jul 23, 2019

Age and signs of wear. Do the springs look like they were hand made or parts show file marks? Modern stuff shows more uniformity in thicknesses et, al,. and generally gets finished to a higher polish and finish. Older stuff that wouldn't show on the outside would seem more crude on the non-bearing surfaces.

Loyalist Dave · Jul 23, 2019

TheTyler7011 said:
I took it to this flintlock historian and he thinks it’s a possibility that it’s original lock for 2 reasons (1): It fits very snug and (2): the patina is the same …,

First, I'm not an "expert"...

I'd say the lock is waaay too snug for it not to be the..., original to the stock....

AH but what if the barrel and the lock, (and the rest of the hardware) were installed on a repro stock, perhaps to create an "original" with all "original parts"...or what appears to be such?
Yes the patina appears to match, but what bothers me as I cannot actually hold the musket, is that the patina looks "too perfect". In other words the patina from what I can see appears to be uniform sized pock marks from corrosion on both the barrel AND the lock on all of the steel parts. Almost as though it was done that way on purpose. There are much more experienced people on the forum that can address corrosion, as the barrel steel and the lock steel I thought were often different grades of steel. Thus the patina wouldn't have perfect uniformity, as harder steel on the lock plate would resist corrosion better than the barrel. But..., perhaps the armory that produced that musket used one grade of steel for everything. ???

LD

TheTyler7011 · Jul 23, 2019

Loyalist Dave said:
First, I'm not an "expert"...

I'd say the lock is waaay too snug for it not to be the..., original to the stock....
AH but what if the barrel and the lock, (and the rest of the hardware) were installed on a repro stock, perhaps to create an "original" with all "original parts"...or what appears to be such?
Yes the patina appears to match, but what bothers me as I cannot actually hold the musket, is that the patina looks "too perfect". In other words the patina from what I can see appears to be uniform sized pock marks from corrosion on both the barrel AND the lock on all of the steel parts. Almost as though it was done that way on purpose. There are much more experienced people on the forum that can address corrosion, as the barrel steel and the lock steel I thought were often different grades of steel. Thus the patina wouldn't have perfect uniformity, as harder steel on the lock plate would resist corrosion better than the barrel. But..., perhaps the armory that produced that musket used one grade of steel for everything. ???

LD

The lock is quite darker and has stronger pitting on the lock. But you might be sort of correct with the stock. The patina on the buttplate doesn’t match, but the cartouche lines up with a period correct stock.

Loyalist Dave · Jul 23, 2019

Cool, and don't get me wrong, I'd think it would be great to have a musket that old that is so "tight" on the hardware.

LD

TheTyler7011 · Jul 23, 2019

Col. Batguano said:
Age and signs of wear. Do the springs look like they were hand made or parts show file marks? Modern stuff shows more uniformity in thicknesses et, al,. and generally gets finished to a higher polish and finish. Older stuff that wouldn't show on the outside would seem more crude on the non-bearing surfaces.

Here’s some photos of the lock. On two parts, their is a translucent/pearlescent “mirror” look to them. Those have to be replacement parts right?

TheTyler7011 · Jul 23, 2019

Loyalist Dave said:
Cool, and don't get me wrong, I'd think it would be great to have a musket that old that is so "tight" on the hardware.

LD

I appreciate your feedback. I love these things and even make my own black powder to shoot, but theirs so much to learn when it comes to authenticity

Griz44Mag · Jul 24, 2019

To my mostly untrained eye:
The lock is likely original with a few replacement parts internally.
That would makes sense to me because parts do wear out, especially at the points where great pressures are placed at small points, especially like the sear contact surfaces and the tumbler notches.
My opinion? This is really cool gun! Make it proud again and go shoot it!

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