Experiments with a properly tuned flintlock

Hi,
Pyrite contains iron and sulfur, which are the elements that become incendiary when the stone is scraped against the wheel. A flint would produce sparks just fine but it would do so by biting into the hardened wheel and wearing it down.

dave

I have known shooters use flint but this is bad for the serrated wheel. Pyrites is a very varied mineral not just any will do . No doubt in the hey day of Wheellocks a particular sourse was known and widely distributed .But I've bought such as I could find often its lumps of gold like examples Jewellers and mineral sample seller have . It is friable so you might get just one shot or if you turn it to a fresh contact face get a second (If its not blasted away entirely ) and your irregular pieces seldom suit the dog head jaws .So if hunting this is well enough, but for target shooting or clay pigeons say it is a positive bain. And I have recoursed to whittling short bits of old ramrod with a V or notch to glue in the varying pyrites so at least you can handily replace the shattered one from the tool box .. This said some wont give the desired sparks .. When you watch Bolec s brilliant videos you can see he has NO problems . witch I account to his great skill but also to his finding the right sort of pyrites used historically , An East European source I think . Should any reader know of just who has these historically suitable Pyrites Ide love to hear from them. I have hunted with mine over the years but for target I decided to make a new plate and make it period flint lock or' English lock 'with dog actually so I can use it on the range its a 45 Dougless Brl I made the rifle 40 years ago or more , it looks antigue from bush miles , The first WL I made now 6 all up but the pyrites was ever a bogey . Much is written saying how lightning fast they are but I think this more myth and a good well vented flintlock just as good .Then shooters pick it up and try to meet the butt plate to their shoulder but its not meant to. Rather you (Or I at least) grasp the forestock firmly with the left had extended whilst the cheek piece is lightly held to your cheek and should allow your eye to aligne with the sights .so by rights the gun ought to me made for your features and cant be universal .The recoiling is taken by that left handed grip . being a 45cal even with three drams there is no discomfort but I used to fire a short express conical and that was enough to push the right thumb into my nose a bit . Ive gone 10 days hunting trip in the local mountains with my WL it seems perfectly normal as it would have been to the original users .Photo might get to include but I'me not adept at these E gajets . Regards Rudyard

Dave I have a nephew that uses a heavy bench flint target rifle made by Kenny Bresien. The nephew still works for a big barrel maker in NH.

He would scrounge in the driveway at matches especially Ft. TY MLA's old range and find a rock then use it for the weekend winning medals in every match shot. Never seen him get a klatch.

I still have a powder Tattoo from that gun on my left side [20+ years later]. Better than any artist could do!

dave_person said:

Then I picked up a small piece of quartz from my driveway:

and fired:

In all cases, the lock would have ignited the powder in the pan and fired. This is what I look for in a lock. I have now fired more than 600 rounds from this rifle without a single misfire or hang fire even when it was dirty and the flint worn to a nub. I've gone through only 10 flints during that time and I replace them when they have no discernible edge not when the lock fails.
dave

Click to expand...

Dave,

Sorry I have been a bit slow to realizing this, but especially the picture of you using a piece of quartz from your driveway, finally got me thinking about the historic use of British "Gunspall" Flints.

As I'm sure you know, Gunspall flints were pretty crude and not much more than wedge shaped pieces of flint. I have looked at them many times in "Colonial Frontier Guns" by Hamilton and often wondered how they got the locks to spark much at all. Most modern repro locks I'm familiar with would not function well at all with Gunspall flints, but they must have worked in the period and your lock tuning seems to bare that out.

For those who don't know, modern "English" Flints are actually flints made in the French style (flats on the tops and bottoms of the flints) for decades before the AWI, but British Flintknappers did not know how to knap them that way until the secret was learned from French Flintknappers just at the beginning of the AWI. During the 18th century and in between wars with France, British Ordnance purchased millions of French Gun Flints because they were superior in sparking ability.

It looks to me if 18th Century English Made locks were tuned as you do them, it allowed them to use the inferior Gunspall Flints with few problems.

Gus

Spalls are used even after the Platform flints come in If there is distinction it's probably the squared platform being more English that the amber French flint with rounded heels generaly the Amber colour . The tuned notion may have a basis but I think it as likely fanciful. as far a Govt locks are concerned . Certainly great care & study went into civilian locks of the better quality .Just as certain some modern locks go well while others play up and dissapoint for no good reason being from the same reputable firms . The Siler is held as the best in many peoples view . But the Davis' Twigg' is the most elegant lock if not suited to many styles There where many poor locks as to design & function but the established L&R, Davis, Chambers ,and others are all much better offerings Yet even the Lott and the Italian Dixie Ketland would 'work up' to be useful locks Thanks to these makers we've got spoilt for choice Ive use Larry Zornes, North Star, Pete Allen , Mack Vance ,Doc Haddaway And you cant discount Lenard Days,& Caywoods If Ive not used these last two .Of kits I found Twigg and Ketland & Co locks in Kit Ravenshears old stock much lighter And I think ex Ted Blackley kits . Then you get the Rifle Shoppe for a real wish list of goodies . Weve come a long long way from Bluegrass locks & Golchers . Rudyard

Hi Gus and Maurice,
I believe that early pattern Brown Bess muskets had depressions in the flint cock jaws to accommodate the thick spalled flints. The secret to locks like the Chambers round-faced is the long strike made by the flint on the frizzen. The frizzen is tall and the flint makes a long scrape plowing through any crud on the frizzen and flint to create sparks. In the very near future, we should have some new locks that may zoom to the top of the list. Chris Laubach should have his Germanic long rifle lock available soon. It is completely CNC machined and will require almost no work because it will come clean and polished with very smooth action. I believe Jim Kibler will also be selling CNC machined locks in the near future. I am sure they will be awesome given his high standards. Finally, Liston Rice will be making and selling (through one retailer, identity to be announced) a lock based on one by Nock. By all accounts this lock is very impressive.

dave

Maurice,
I have 2 wheellocks to build if I can ever get through my current queue of work for others. One will have an Italian-made repro of the classic 17th century Dutch lock with the sharp tail. Essentially it is the Lauber design. I rebuilt the lock and it works really well. The other will be made from TRS castings of a large German lock from the late 1500s. When I lived in Ketchikan, Alaska, there was a road along the White River on Revillagigedo Island that was paved with crushed rock containing large iron pyrite crystals. If you drove the road at night, it would sparkle with the pyrite. I collected quite a few of those perfect crystals and they seem to work well in my repro wheellock. They are not terribly friable so they don't crumble away during use.

dave

It seems that getting good pyrites is substantially harder than finding good flints. TRS advertises that they have pyrites for sale. Does anyone have experience with them, or other (commercial) sources they seem to be getting decent pyrites from?

Dear Col.Batguano .Seems we are in the same boat . Dave Person said he knew of lots of it up in Alaska but its a bit out of reach . Bolec must know . There surely must be a sourse but it does vary , Grey stuff dosn't work or the grey stuff I tried didn't. Minerals are a VERY variable thing , just like wood some is better than others and like wood it can vary from tree to tree according to the happen chance of nature ..Dave says he has orders or wants to make some W locks .I do think their interesting and a definite part of the study of arms . But they cant guarrantee any marked advantage over most archaic locks. They had a long run in their evolutionary place but if you roll up to a shoot with one you do get looks & interest. But I don't think you get any advantage I shot mine years ago at a Short range champs at Bisley in the flintlock class (Non for WLocks !) I battled to get the 13 shots inside 30 minets and the last was with the aid of someones cigarette. Score might have worried a goat at the 100 yards. But not many in the black , low entry so I got a bronze. I screwed the horn ball out of the butt plate just to improuve the prone position , but they are really off hand guns . I did make one after the ' boys gun 'of Louis the 13th's ' Cabernet d armes ' since the customer wanted a more normal configuration . In November 1995 issue of' Muzzle loader Magazine' I wrote an article 'Observations on the more Archiac locks " From a Re enactment standpoint . It had one questionable line re ignition viz ." But the palm for reliability must ever be reserved for the matchlock ' It caught the attention of Pukka Bundook and he made one a real beutey. Then three years ago I sold a Venetian snap match lock along 'Mary Rose " lines and Pukka enquired of its owner he regularly corresponded with and lo we where linked .Small world ' Regards Rudyard

Dave -
Love your spark photos. The bursting fireworks show that you have lots of carbon in your frizzen (surface). Seems to me that's key. Just hardening a piece of steel isn't going to give you that much carbon.
I'm a collector, not a shooter, but I like to do what's necessary to the locks to get them to spark again. You obviously are a master at it.

Back to wheellocks - a bit off-topic, but fun: As has been mentioned elsewhere, one way to get around the problem with pyrites is to use ferrocerium. It's widely available (Amazon of course) as a fire starter for campers. You can buy rods 1/4 inch in diameter. I cut a piece of wood to fit in the dog jaws, taper the end a bit and put a notch in the end to make it easier to stick the ferrocerium in with epoxy so that the wheel digs into the side of the rod. Cutting the ferrocerium to length with a hacksaw is a fun fireworks show (don't have flammables nearby!) I bought a 1/2 inch square bar thinking it would look better, but it didn't spark as well.

Interesting post re modern "Pyrites" option an old friend used to use some sort of Oxy gas lighting jaget but he made a more file like wheel to use it .. getting reliable natural pyrites is a challenge . I glue small bits into wooden holders to fit the dog head .OK for hunting but never do at a clay shoot since the vent blast or its crumbling usually wrecks the pyrites .Must try the modern .Worth a try & presumably works for you . Regards Rudyard

Excellent discussion and presentation. Thank You