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I like the mess created by shooting BP... from the lube all over the barrel to the smell I bring home on my clothes... :)

I like the oxyoke lubed pad over the 25 grains of powder and .454 ball (leaves a complete ring of lead shaved off when rammed in the cylinder).
I started without pads, then dry pads, using .451 balls.... .451 balls would ram and leave a "C" shaped ring of lead.... and a very experienced BP
Pistol shooter showed me how a .454 ball leave a shaved "O" lead ring (best seal).

The seal of the ball is better, but a little harder on the pistol ram.... I have multiple cylinders, and use a separate loader for all but the 1st cylinder.
I plan to try the Cream of Wheat to get the ball closer to the end of the cylinder. don't think it make cleanup any easier as its dry.
If only to try it as my accuracy is pretty good at 50 feet (Scout Pistol Range).

I do lube over the ball on all the loaded chambers of the 1st cylinder I shoot... sets up the barrel and "everything" in front of the cylinder to make all the fouling from the remaining cylinders of shot, a "wipe off" when it comes to cleaning. If it gets wiped off during loading I will shoot another "lubed over" cylinder.

I remove, soak, dry, clean and lube the threads of the nipples/cylinders after shooting, during cleanup, not sure if that's my quirk but I do that for my BP rifle nipples and I have reduced "no fires" to "almost never".... nothing in BP is ever 100%.

I still run a set of caps thru each nipple before loading a cylinder 1st time.
 
I shot from Creedmore position back when and I was able to hold steady. Then I shot the C&B that way once. My blast shield and pants could have been wrung out to cook French fries! Not doing that again.
 
BIGBEAR said:
question on loading:
I'm loading and shooting my 1858 Pietta Remington 44..
30.gr -3f black / .451 pure lead round ball ..

I've used no over powder wad , and no over ball lube/ sealer ...
Just wondering if a "dry" ball like that will lead the barrel faster...

If a lubed ball would be better , than could I coat them with liquid alox ?

I wasn't concerned with chain fire , because the ball is a nice tight fit ..
Just trying to get away from the mess of the over ball lube ..any thoughts ?
Click to expand...
Chain fire usually is caused from the nipple end and loose cap fit. You will need lube on the ball for a couple of reasons to keep the revolver shooting consistently and accurately.
 
Every so often someone wonders what effect loading a ball that is a little bigger or smaller into a revolvers chamber has to the ball.
Does loading a little bit bigger ball improve anything?

Well, one thing it does change is the length of the flat on the ball. The length of the flat has a direct bearing on how well the ball will grab the rifling.
If you are shooting a mild powder load the length of the flat won't have much effect but if your using a maximum powder load a larger ball will work better.

I made a little sketch that shows a ball pressed into a chamber. The portion of the ball (circle) that is outside the chamber diameter is the part that gets sheared off when the ball is rammed in.

C&B FLAT.jpg

To figure out how wide the flat on the ball will be you've got to do some math. This will need a calculator that has a memory and a square root button on it.
If you have such a calculator here's what to do. (I'll write this like I would do it if I was using a regular scientific hand held calculator).

Put in the chamber diameter, then hit the X (times) button and put in the chamber diameter again. Then, hit the = button.

Now, hit the Memory store button. (Make sure the memory doesn't have anything already stored in it. If it does, clear it so it is storing 0 before you start.)

Then, put in the ball diameter, hit the X button and put in the ball diameter again. Then hit the = button.

While that answer is still on the screen, poke the - (minus) key and then poke the memory recall and then poke the = button.

Now, poke the Square Root button. (The symbol looks like this: √ )

Your now looking at the answer for the width of the flat.

Going thru this with real numbers my chamber diameter is .451 so I have .451 X .451 = .203401. I store this in the memory.

The ball diameter is .454 so I poke in .454, X .454 = .206116

While this number is still on the screen I poke the - (minus) button and then hit the Memory recall and then hit the = button. I get an answer of .002715

Now, poking the square root button I get an answer of .0521, or just a little bit less than 1/16 of an inch.

edit: To keep it interesting what happens if we use a .457 diameter ball in that chamber? It's only three thousandths bigger than the .454 ball.

Again, multiplying .451 X .451 we get .203401 so we store that in the memory.

Multiplying .457 X .457 we get .208849. Recalling the memory and subtracting it from this number we get .005448. Taking the square root of this we get .0738 so, by changing the size of the ball by .003 in this case, the flat on the ball increases from a little less than 1/16" to almost 5/64.

Have fun. :)

By the way, if you store the square of the ball size in the memory and subtract it from the square of the chamber diameter the answer will be a negative. It is impossible for the square root of a negative number to exist* so if you do try taking the square root of a negative number the calculator will tell you that you have made an error.

* We don't want to get into the script letter "i" here.

 
Last edited:
Great information per usual... now what happens wrt when the projectile tries to shorten during ignition? Does this effectively lengthen the driving band appreciably?
 
I don't think anyone knows how much the bulging of a round when the powder ignites.
Figuring that would take a lot more data and mathematics than I would want to put into figuring how much a lead roundball actually grows in diameter in the direction of the bore. The answer would even involve the softness of the lead and the speed of acceleration at the moment of ignition which would depend on the strength of the powder and the size of the powder load.

Makes my head hurt to even think about it.o_O
 
45man said:
True a chain fire is from behind with a good fitting ball. Lube just keeps fouling soft to be shot out. Never use any mineral wax or oils with BP. Animal oils and beeswax or seed based oils only.
The reason I don't use a wad or a bullet is it limits the powder charge for deer. If you just target shoot a filler is good. I make use of the chamber and my Ruger OA takes 41 gr of Swiss FFFG for over 1100 fps to knock a deer dead. Not as accurate as a lighter load but I hunt close.
Click to expand...

What caliber pistol?
 
BIGBEAR said:
question on loading:
I'm loading and shooting my 1858 Pietta Remington 44..
30.gr -3f black / .451 pure lead round ball ..

I've used no over powder wad , and no over ball lube/ sealer ...
Just wondering if a "dry" ball like that will lead the barrel faster...

If a lubed ball would be better , than could I coat them with liquid alox ?

I wasn't concerned with chain fire , because the ball is a nice tight fit ..
Just trying to get away from the mess of the over ball lube ..any thoughts ?
Click to expand...


If you will use some lubed felt wads between ball and powder, there is little additional mess, and you will get good lubrication to keep fouling down.
Size, and even shape of the wads is not important as long as they are not too large, but need to be large enough to hold an adequate amount of lube.
Some will think I'm crazy, but I get just as good accuracy and lubrication with square wads as I do with round ones. Even made some triangular ones once. Still no difference in performance.
You just have to get past the commonly held belief that those felt wads are some sort of gas seal.
They are not.
 
Zonie,

Re. the ball expanding on ignition, (setting up)
Hard maybe for it to do in a revolver, but have proved to myself that they do set up in a musket. (.750" bal, .760" bore, and ball set up with a flat area around it's middle when fired . No patch just a wad. (125 grs 2F or so.)
Re revolvers and shaving;
Yes, this happens on most American or replica American types, but British revolvers usually have coned chambers, so the ball is swaged and not cut down to size on being pressed home into the chamber.
Adams and Tranters are built to this design.

Kind regards,
Richard.
 
BIGBEAR said:
Just wondering if a "dry" ball like that will lead the barrel faster..
Click to expand...

My 2 cents worth.
Should use lube of some sort, even if it is Crisco. The weapon was designed in the time of horse back travel and battle. They are not of the modern generation and grease of some kind was in order. I use a lube wad under the ball and sometimes grease over the ball. I keep the outside of the pistol wiped down and lightly lubed. The chance of chain fire is most likely from the rear of the chamber with ill fitting caps. I have old palmetto, pieta, and uberti, pistols. I use no. 10 caps on all of them, forcing the cap on the nipple. I have had no. 11 caps chain fire. My pistols are greased and oiled to the hilt, unlike my cartridge weapons which are built for a more modern cleaner environment.
No grease will shoot dry and gunk up the weapon so much the action will even start binding. Disassemble a well greased revolver at least once, maybe twice a year, depending on use and completely clean and lubricate action. I used fishing reel grease, graphite grease for lube. A 44 with 30 grains is just as powerful as a 38 special. I have one around all the time, loaded, just in case. I can't say I have ever had a cap and ball lead up too much.
 
45man said:
It takes a .457" ball, it is a .45. I believe they used .45 Colt barrels.
Click to expand...

Do you mean that they literally use Colt-made .45cal barrels? I didn't know that Colt made their barrels available to other makers, or that they made the SAA in stainless steel. Live and learn, eh?
 
TFoley said:
Do you mean that they literally use Colt-made .45cal barrels? I didn't know that Colt made their barrels available to other makers, or that they made the SAA in stainless steel. Live and learn, eh?
Click to expand...
I believe he meant 45 Long Colt barrels.
Ruger just used the same barrels they used on other 45 Long Colt pistols and fitted them to the ROA single actions.
 

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