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GreyD

32 Cal
Joined
Mar 12, 2019
Messages
12
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Location
Ozark, Missouri
I recently acquired a 20 gauge flintlock (my first smoothbore) and have questions. First, when I clean with patch and jag (20g), the first 2-3 inches seem really tight. Sometimes difficult to even get started through the bore. Once I'm past that initial point it is smooth sailing. Is this normal? Is this due to the initial compression of the patch or something? It is a colerain barrel and as far as i know not choked and supposedly never fired so I wouldn't think someone short started it and fired, bulging out the rear portion of the barrel.

Second, I have been using a 0.595 ball with 0.015 patching (I tried 0.600 ball and it was just too tight with that patching). And with that combination if I don't swab it after every other shot I can barely load it. Even loading the second shot without swabbing is really tough so I typically swab after every shot. When I first shot it without cleaning after my first few shots, I had to pull the ball because I couldn't get the ball past the midpoint of the barrel. So how many loads between swabs is common on a smoothbore? Should I be using an even smaller ball or thinner patching to make it easier to load? I would like to be able to load more than one or two times without swabbing or at least make the loading the second round more reasonable. I'm concerned that if the ball is looser, however, I am going to lose accuracy. I've been reading about using wads, etc., and how even a bare ball in a smoothbore with wads can expand making it tight in the barrel and fairly accurate. I haven't tried wads yet but might try it at some point. At this point I'm not sure what to do other than swab after every other shot at a minimum or go to looser ball/patch combo and lose accuracy.
 
Welcome to the world of smoothbore where every bore can be different and you may just need to chalk it all up to being a learning experience.
I can't solve your problems but here's a few ideas:

1. Routine check your bore and ball size even if it's just to make sure that all is as it's supposed to be.

2. Ask yourself if you're happy with the accuracy, the powder load and the amount of fouling?
a. You might sacrifice a little accuracy with a looser PRB combo. but you can also try a thinner patch with the ball size that you already have.
b. Is there a cleaner powder or different granulation that you can use that won't interfere with loading compared to what you're already using?
c. Is there another patch lube that you could try out to help make the fouling softer. or to help swab while you load? Maybe the amount can be increased or change it altogether.
Have you tried Bore Butter, Hoppe's #9 Plus Black Powder Solvent and Patch Lube or Mr. Flintlock's Patch Lube and Bore Cleaner?

3. A jag can be made smaller by sanding, filing, turning it down or using a smaller size jag with a slightly larger patch.

4. Perhaps a longer "long starter" or a thick dowel can be used along with a mallet to help gently tap the ball down farther into the breech to help ease loading difficulty.
Sorry to hear that you needed to pull a ball due to fouling.

5. At what distance to you shoot at and expect to obtain close to rifle-like accuracy?
If you switch to a looser PRB combo. and don't like the results at longer distance, then you can shoot at a closer distance where the degree of accuracy won't be noticed.
If you're not firing at 50 yards targets then don't worry about any loss of accuracy.
When you need the accuracy then you can always go back to the tighter load.

I'm surprised that your ball size is causing as much difficulty as it is.
Perhaps measuring the spec's will provide a reason why.
If not then you can only chalk it up to experience and hopefully come up with a workable solution.

One MLF member named Herb posted many threads about test firing his flintlocks using duplex loads.
He claimed that after 1000's of shots he never needed to pull a ball due to the duplex loads.
Perhaps it's a way to reduce the amount of fouling.--->>> https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...ding-pyrodex-and-triple-7.97202/#post-1261613

I also recently posted videos of firing a flintlock only loaded with American Pioneer Powder, but which can also be duplex loaded. [3f is better than 2F]--->>> https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...with-american-pioneer-3f.114334/#post-1560974
 
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I had the same scenario when I got my smooth bore. A thinner patch will help. What works for me is a greased wad after the powder. Then a patched ball. The wad will swipe the bore for you and act as a gas check. I don't always patch a ball, use wad under and over the ball works well also.
 
I use a .600 ball with a .010 patch lubed with spit or Mr Flintlock lube. Haven't had any problems.....yet. What brand powder are you using? Goex and Schuetzen 3f burn pretty clean in my gun.
 
Welcome to the Forum, GreyD.
I don't have any experience myself with smoothbores, but a lot of folks here don't use patches, they load a loose ball, then put tow or other wadding over it to keep the ball in place. And they get good groups.

You need to
click on the "smoothbore" forum, and read through a lot of the previous threads that pertain to loads. You'll find a lot of good information. Even more so than rifles, smoothies seem to be a law unto themselves, each one.

Matter of fact, this whole thread should be moved to the smoothbore forum, so that a lot more folks who are knowledgeable on the subject would see it, and join the discussion, 'though you are getting a lot of good advice here.

Richard/Grumpa
 
What does the bore measure?

My Colerain 16 gauge measures .653, making it closer to a 17 gauge instead of a 16.

My gun didn’t shoot patched round balls very well, I tried .626 balls with .018 patching without much success.

However with a .648 Roundball and no patch things improved..
After a little more testing I’ve found a .642 ball shoots well without a patch also

And to answer your question my bore does seem tighter up near the muzzle, the first 6” or so is really tight with a patched ball.

With the bare ball load using a lubed 1/2 “ cushion wad over the ball I can shoot 4-5 rounds before running a patch just to swab the bore.

I have fired up to 15 shots and only swabbed a couple of times during the string, however clean up took a lot longer than normal . I shoot ffg in my smoothbore.
 
What does the bore measure?

My Colerain 16 gauge measures .653, making it closer to a 17 gauge instead of a 16.

My gun didn’t shoot patched round balls very well, I tried .626 balls with .018 patching without much success.

However with a .648 Roundball and no patch things improved..
After a little more testing I’ve found a .642 ball shoots well without a patch also

And to answer your question my bore does seem tighter up near the muzzle, the first 6” or so is really tight with a patched ball.

With the bare ball load using a lubed 1/2 “ cushion wad over the ball I can shoot 4-5 rounds before running a patch just to swab the bore.

I have fired up to 15 shots and only swabbed a couple of times during the string, however clean up took a lot longer than normal . I shoot ffg in my smoothbore.
 
SMO,

That makes me feel better. I'll have to measure the bore again. I measured it when I first got it but now can't remember what the actual dimensions were. Seems like it was slightly less than .62 I want to say 0.617 but not sure. Sounds like I just need to work with some different things and it should improve. Thanks for the input.
 
It’s taken me a couple years with mine, but I’ve had two shoulder injuries along the way .
But she’s comin’ around, hopefully it will take my first smoothbore deer this Fall..
 

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