Need help identifying a mystery wheellock rifle

Hey folks,

This is not very serious, but would love your help: I have this unusual wheellock rifle. I am not an expert on these, but I've seen enough legit 17th century antiques to be pretty certain it's a replica. Still, I could never narrow it down the origins of this thing (Middle East? India? Western Europe?) to make any informed guess about when it might have been made (modern? early 20th century? late 19th?) - and it's been bugging me for a pretty long time.

Anyway, I have a detailed folder with photos and descriptions from full disassembly here: https://imgur.com/a/HtXhnmH

Attaching three photos for reference, but please check out the album for a lot more. Any theories appreciated!

Is it only me, or is there no mainspring in that lock?

Zonie said:

Is it only me, or is there no mainspring in that lock?

Click to expand...

There is a mainspring - it's that horizontal spring actuated by a cam-like thing. The lock actually works fine. But it is a pretty unusual design.

Hi,
I believe it is a fairly modern made gun by someone who saw wheellocks from the outside but did not how they were actually made. The lock looks like someone's redesign complete with modern looking screws. They tried to emulate the fancy stag horn and bone inlayed guns of the 16th and 17th centuries. I don't think it has to be India or any where particular. It could be someone anywhere that wanted a wheellock but really did not know how they were designed and made. The primary sear mechanism is really crude and I suspect works pretty roughly. It is a clever redesign.

dave

fut- said:

There is a mainspring - it's that horizontal spring actuated by a cam-like thing. The lock actually works fine. But it is a pretty unusual design.

Click to expand...

Ah ha ! I see it.
I was looking for the typical chain links between the spring and the wheel instead of the steel single link that is serving the purpose.

I don't blame you for buying it, it is cool and I definitely would want to fire it. Thanks for sharing it.

Hi Fut

My first thought was that it was a Victorian era copy. But after viewing the other photos that proved wrong. I agree with Dave's assessment above and can't really add to it. It is a clever redesign of the lock. In addition to the working lock, I noticed a threaded breech plug. So it would appear that the gun was made to be fired (?) Is there any evidence inside the barrel ? The flutes on the barrel look machine done versus hand chiseled. But never the less, someone had a lot of time in making this gun.
If the barrel steel quality and breech plug safety are checked out along with some lock tuning (if needed) it would be a fun shooter.
Congratulations. It's one of those later day muzzle loading curiosities.

In a similar vein, here is a gun I also picked up very cheaply. It's some one's modern day attempt to recreate an Omani matchlock, but having no idea what one looked like. The maker used an incorrect Sindh, jazail type stock and other later 19th Century type hardware. LOL Only the original, fluted Omani barrel is correct (which is the only reason I bought it).

So, once in a great while one of these muzzle loading fantasies turn up.

If you do decide that you want (and can) to shoot yours, please keep us posted.
Thanks for sharing.

Rick

These Barrels seem quite common several tons of such barrels where trucked to England by the late Major Noel Corry of Steaple Bumstead. Seemingly confiscated from the Kurds who inhabit that region trapped in by Persia, Turkey and Irak. The story is he and his partners sought Persian Artillery Lugers but had to take these relics as part of the deal . well the Gallant Major advertised them at prices like 3 pounds for better sorts more ornate Rifles and smooth being priced thereabouts . He offerered very rough Werdles and well worn double rifles ex Liege but worn out in varios states Flint tools and so forth . Well the barrels had been well worn some put to percussion by the typical curious side plug with extended bar . I went down with a friend & we bought lots of them . How typical of Kurdistan the assembly was is hard to say they ranged in date & quality which was often superb Damascuss extremely worn with bore to match but some where in a better state many of them still matchlocks like the one illustrated Often Called Omani but likely made in Persia or that region of todays Kurdistan .I had several none have threaded breech plugs but are forged solid the bore quite good but have a long convoluted anti chamber as have other Indo Persian barrels . The Poincion in Calligraphy on the tang is clear ( The wood screw is modern yuk!) . That many found their way Too Oman is not in doubt but .They also got to Southern India The imfamous Tippoo Sahib Sultan of Mysore had guns with these same flutted barrels and as either flint lock or refined matchlock where in his collection & armouries at the fall of his palace at Serringapattam in 1799 (He was sideing with the French and the East India Company didn't like his habit of feeding British subjects to his Tigers ). Hence the bounder had to go .! Nice job for the younger Arthur Wellesley ... most of his interesting and unique arms are still preserved But they at least hold an inletted insert while it is practicaly unknown to find these otherwise .Pukka speculates it is possibly some sort of export reasoning or it could simply be the shrewed merchants simpley oicked out the pressious metal for a weigh in ' perk'. Even if the decoration could be called a bit OTT you cant deny the workman ship is anything but superb. The barrel steels or iron mixes have the multy layer figure if not enhanced by etching to show the figure . Now about here there will be those who feel they have to decrie anything with Damascus Barrels and are almost programed by ingrained predudice against them . Well don't use them. My names Jimmy Ile take all you can gimme !. I will add that Turkish barrels where highly esteemed by European makers They did reach Vienna , Wore funny hats but could certainly make exellent barrels Regards Rudyard