Conicals??

Cowboy · Jun 1, 2019

Okay!

Here’s where I’m at. I know absolutely nothing about shooting conicals through a muzzleloader. I’ve been exclusively a RB shooter with the exception of shooting miniball out of my civil war long arm’s.

Have a Pedersoli Missouri River Hawken with a fast twist. Bought it here on the forum couple years back.Thought I’d turn the page and learn something new? Basic 101 when it comes to shooting conicals if you will?

Anyway, I know that I could and have to some extent researched past threads in reference to this topic. My intent is to not stay silent in doing so.

I’d rather start a lively discussion and learn from our active membership in the here and now.

Want to learn everything from preference’s in type of conical to loading techniques. Anything that you’d think would be helpful to the basic’s, conicals 101.

Looking forward to corresponding with my friends here on the forum.

Respectfully, Cowboy

Howie1968 · Jun 1, 2019

Cowboy, while im not the most experienced on the forumn, I however hunt and and shoot a lot of conicals. over 60 hogs killed with conicals now. first things first What is your caliber? second rate f twist 3rd check your exact bore diameter.
I shoot conicals out of every caliber I have even my Kodiak 72 gets conicals from time to time, although they aren't overly accurate because the rate of twist.
I mainly shoot 3 types of conicals. Hornady great plains in both 50 which is 385 grains and .54 I shoot the 425 grain.. I also shoot TC maxiballs. the maxiballs are designed more for penetration than the maxihunters. in my .58 I shoot a 600 grain TOF maxi. I also shoot no excuse 460 grain .50 and a 600 grain in 50 and a 535 in .54

recoil will be quite a bit more than patched roundball given the same powder charge.
when I first started that's all I wanted to use was conicals. I asked many questions. mr. Brown bear gave me some excellent advice about putting a wonder wad over the powder for a better seal best thing to do is get a box of several different kind and shoot for accuracy.
important the conical must be loaded straight if not loaded right could cause issues. of these 3 I really like the no excuse they penetrate more in my opinion never found a single one in a hog passed through and at times gave me a 2fer several times
the maxiball was designed to shoot out of a 1-48 twist however I believe faster twist would be great for them. of the 3 only the great plains bullet is hollo base. the rest are flat based. the great plains is another short bullet and have great results in 1-48
I like the no excuse conicals because Mr. Dave sizes them to .500. 501, .502 .503 .504 upon request. for most guns a .503 fits nearly perfect. so I just order the . 50 .503 and works in any of the 8 50s I own. if you need anything let me know

Don Steele · Jun 1, 2019

A while back, I decided to set-up a T/C Hawken w/ original bbl (28", 1:48 twist) specifically to shoot conicals. Why...??? Well, just BECAUSE.
I determined the factory sights needed to go, and were replaced with what works real well for me, other folks have their own favorites. I then proceeded to purchase pretty much every conical I could locate and ran shooting tests off a rest, at 50 yds testing each of them with several (hunting range) powder charges from 80-100gns in both 2f and 3f granulations. Best groups were the Hornady Great Plains 385 gn. over 80 gns Goex 3f. One ragged hole from 50 yds. I hunt in S.E. Georgia where shooting is up close and personal.The hogs I've killed with that combination have been one shot kills, never more than 30 yds.

52Bore · Jun 1, 2019

Cowboy:
Basic 101:
Learn to cast your own.
Use pure lead.
Use a good Lube (SPG is one).
Not sure if your bore diameter? The larger the bore- go with a cavity base.
No need to use a lot of powder. Ex. My 12b ML shoots wonderful with 75gr under the 850gr conical. Once you get the large conicals going - let the bullet mass do the work.
Have lots of fun shooting and developing a good accurate load.!
Good luck.

45 (350gr), 50 (475gr) 52 (500gr) & 12b (850gr), I’ve made in recent years..

jdw276 · Jun 1, 2019

52Bore said:
Cowboy:
Basic 101:
Learn to cast your own.
Use pure lead.
Use a good Lube (SPG is one).
Not sure if your bore diameter? The larger the bore- go with a cavity base.
No need to use a lot of powder. Ex. My 12b ML shoots wonderful with 75gr under the 850gr conical. Once you get the large conicals going - let the bullet mass do the work.
Have lots of fun shooting and developing a good accurate load.!
Good luck.

View attachment 10349
45 (350gr), 50 (475gr) 52 (500gr) & 12b (850gr), I’ve made in recent years..

850 grain conical?
Ooooooowwwww! How much powder does it take to get it moving out of the barrel? Sorry, missed the 75 grain reference. Presume it knocks down 12 inch trees well to hit what you are shooting at if they get in the way..

Tom A Hawk · Jun 1, 2019

52Bore said:
Cowboy:
Basic 101:
Learn to cast your own.
Use pure lead.
Use a good Lube (SPG is one).
Not sure if your bore diameter? The larger the bore- go with a cavity base.
No need to use a lot of powder. Ex. My 12b ML shoots wonderful with 75gr under the 850gr conical. Once you get the large conicals going - let the bullet mass do the work.
Have lots of fun shooting and developing a good accurate load.!
Good luck.

View attachment 10349
45 (350gr), 50 (475gr) 52 (500gr) & 12b (850gr), I’ve made in recent years..

Nice looking bullets there. What mold?

brewer12345 · Jun 1, 2019

I cast my own (t.v. maxi for 50, lee real for 54), so I can't advise you on commercial examples. However, make sure you put a wonder wad under the conical. Doing so meant my rifles went from barely on the paper to holes touching with no other changes.

Cowboy · Jun 1, 2019

Howie1968 said:
Cowboy, while im not the most experienced on the forumn, I however hunt and and shoot a lot of conicals. over 60 hogs killed with conicals now. first things first What is your caliber? second rate f twist 3rd check your exact bore diameter.
I shoot conicals out of every caliber I have even my Kodiak 72 gets conicals from time to time, although they aren't overly accurate because the rate of twist.
I mainly shoot 3 types of conicals. Hornady great plains in both 50 which is 385 grains and .54 I shoot the 425 grain.. I also shoot TC maxiballs. the maxiballs are designed more for penetration than the maxihunters. in my .58 I shoot a 600 grain TOF maxi. I also shoot no excuse 460 grain .50 and a 600 grain in 50 and a 535 in .54

recoil will be quite a bit more than patched roundball given the same powder charge.
when I first started that's all I wanted to use was conicals. I asked many questions. mr. Brown bear gave me some excellent advice about putting a wonder wad over the powder for a better seal best thing to do is get a box of several different kind and shoot for accuracy.
important the conical must be loaded straight if not loaded right could cause issues. of these 3 I really like the no excuse they penetrate more in my opinion never found a single one in a hog passed through and at times gave me a 2fer several times
the maxiball was designed to shoot out of a 1-48 twist however I believe faster twist would be great for them. of the 3 only the great plains bullet is hollo base. the rest are flat based. the great plains is another short bullet and have great results in 1-48
I like the no excuse conicals because Mr. Dave sizes them to .500. 501, .502 .503 .504 upon request. for most guns a .503 fits nearly perfect. so I just order the . 50 .503 and works in any of the 8 50s I own. if you need anything let me know

Thanks Howie, I’ll let ya know my friend.

Cowboy · Jun 1, 2019

Don Steele said:
A while back, I decided to set-up a T/C Hawken w/ original bbl (28", 1:48 twist) specifically to shoot conicals. Why...??? Well, just BECAUSE.
I determined the factory sights needed to go, and were replaced with what works real well for me, other folks have their own favorites. I then proceeded to purchase pretty much every conical I could locate and ran shooting tests off a rest, at 50 yds testing each of them with several (hunting range) powder charges from 80-100gns in both 2f and 3f granulations. Best groups were the Hornady Great Plains 385 gn. over 80 gns Goex 3f. One ragged hole from 50 yds. I hunt in S.E. Georgia where shooting is up close and personal.The hogs I've killed with that combination have been one shot kills, never more than 30 yds.

Appreciate the info Don.

Thank you my friend.
Respectfully, Cowboy

Cowboy · Jun 1, 2019

52Bore said:
Cowboy:
Basic 101:
Learn to cast your own.
Use pure lead.
Use a good Lube (SPG is one).
Not sure if your bore diameter? The larger the bore- go with a cavity base.
No need to use a lot of powder. Ex. My 12b ML shoots wonderful with 75gr under the 850gr conical. Once you get the large conicals going - let the bullet mass do the work.
Have lots of fun shooting and developing a good accurate load.!
Good luck.

View attachment 10349
45 (350gr), 50 (475gr) 52 (500gr) & 12b (850gr), I’ve made in recent years..

Appreciate the pics and information my friend. I do cast everything I shoot. Even cast for several members here on the forum as well. Just wanted to expand my knowledge. The conical thing is new to me.

Anyway, the MRH is a .50 Cal. Think it’s a 1:28 twist if I’m not mistaken? Sort of been reading up on Lee REAL. Anyone have an opinion on that one?

Respectfully, Cowboy

Sidney Smith · Jun 1, 2019

I started out with conicals when I got into BP. I shot TC maxi balls exclusively out of my Renegade. I could hit a 3 inch target at 100 yards on a regular basis using 80 grains of of pyrodex RS. I found them to be very accurate. They use up a lot of lead if you make them yourself.

Cowboy · Jun 1, 2019

Sidney Smith said:
I started out with conicals when I got into BP. I shot TC maxi balls exclusively out of my Renegade. I could hit a 3 inch target at 100 yards on a regular basis using 80 grains of of pyrodex RS. I found them to be very accurate. They use up a lot of lead if you make them yourself.

Thank you.

Respectfully, Cowboy

arcticap · Jun 1, 2019

Cowboy said:

Anyway, the MRH is a .50 Cal. Think it’s a 1:28 twist if I’m not mistaken?

Click to expand...

It has a 1 in 24" twist.
I realize that the rifle is heavy enough to help absorb the recoil produced by heavier bullets, but lighter bullets = less recoil and can mean flatter trajectory.
Especially if only shooting paper targets.

52Bore · Jun 1, 2019

Tom A Hawk said:
Nice looking bullets there. What mold?

I made all the molds. They are bored out of Lg Lyman, RCBS, etc.
Very rewarding to make your own and harvest with them.
The 850gr bullet over 75gr Swiss 2f is traveling at 950fps at the Muzzle - went right thru a whitetail broadside ,double lung/heart, at 60yds. Killed 2 at that distance- kinda disappointing as I thought it would have knocked them over, but passed right thru. Each were dead within 50yds.
I’ve owned a lathe for nearly 30 years and would recommend one to anyone!

longcruise · Jun 1, 2019

The most accurate 50 cal conical I ever shot came out of a Lee 50-70 mold. It is 500 grains I think. They also have a 450 grainer.

They cast a bit large and need to be sized down. I never got the mold but the bullets were given to me by a guy who sized them.

You could get a Lee 501 push through sizer and ream it out to your needs.

AlanG · Jun 1, 2019

I know Pedersoli makes a conical mold for these. Always worth trying what the maker had in mind.

Cowboy · Jun 1, 2019

AlanG said:
I know Pedersoli makes a conical mold for these. Always worth trying what the maker had in mind.

True.
Respectfully, Cowboy

Cowboy · Jun 1, 2019

longcruise said:
The most accurate 50 cal conical I ever shot came out of a Lee 50-70 mold. It is 500 grains I think. They also have a 450 grainer.

They cast a bit large and need to be sized down. I never got the mold but the bullets were given to me by a guy who sized them.

You could get a Lee 501 push through sizer and ream it out to your needs.

Thank you my friend.

Respectfully, Cowboy

Cowboy · Jun 1, 2019

arcticap said:
It has a 1 in 24" twist.
I realize that the rifle is heavy enough to help absorb the recoil produced by heavier bullets, but lighter bullets = less recoil and can mean flatter trajectory.
Especially if only shooting paper targets.

At this point I’d only be shooting paper and steel. I’m pretty much a dedicated RB man but with an open mind for the rest.

Respectfully, Cowboy

52Bore · Jun 2, 2019

Cowboy said:
Appreciate the pics and information my friend. I do cast everything I shoot. Even cast for several members here on the forum as well. Just wanted to expand my knowledge. The conical thing is new to me.

Anyway, the MRH is a .50 Cal. Think it’s a 1:28 twist if I’m not mistaken? Sort of been reading up on Lee REAL. Anyone have an opinion on that one?
Respectfully, Cowboy

50cal 1:28 is what the industry determined optimal for Modern ML years ago.
If I may share a learning opportunity from 2 years ago.
The picture is of the World Record Holder for a Whitetail Deer - Stephen Tucker. He was 26 when he shot the deer with is in-line, the one he got for Christmas when he was 14 - all he ever knew.
He was at Friendship shooting his 2-pellets 777 and saboted bullets. After talking with him as he struggled at 200yds. I offered him the 50/475gr HP and some 85gr Swiss 2f. After being surprised by not only the lower recoil, but accurate groups at 200, I told him to put the elevation in his scope and try the Mimi-Creedmoor at 500. He was astonished!
He harvested another large Whitetail with this comical and PB load last year.
He now wants to go deer hunting with a Flint. I hope to help him in this journey.

I know the photo may be hard for some here to swallow - but it’s the story and educational experience the young man had with pure lead heavy conicals and Black Powder that’s the point.
Not to mention his new desire to shoot a deer with a Flintlock.

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