Pyrodex More Corrosive Than Black?

colorado clyde said:

Rifleman1776 said:

The others have nailed it. This is a cleaning issue. I have done some writing and marketing in the past and often catch 'qualifiers' in ads that make what is said something other than fact.
e.g. When I first tested pre-marekt Pyrodex for them in the early 1970s I noticed the claim that "it does not corrode like black powder". The key (trick) word there is "like". They don't deny it corrodes but, in reality, it corrodes in a manner different than black powder.
Clean yer guns.
BTW, that was the first and last time I ever used Pyrodex.

Click to expand...

If I remember pyrodex was marketed as less fouling and not less corrosive ...but I could be wrong.

Click to expand...

You're not wrong. The instructions on the back label include this statement: "Clean as with black powder." There are no statements anywhere on the labels, front or back, that claim it's non-corrosive.
Regards,
Mike

Thanks, Mike.
"stuff" changes. Even package labels. I was going back 40 years with my observations.

Pyrodex forms percolates=almost immediate rust. Percolates bind with the steel in the bore and are almost impossible to remove even with the most robust cleaning. I dont use it for that reason. I found this out from Taylor Sapergia master antique gun builder in Prince George B.C.Canada. Taylor has won gun building awards all over the U.S. East coast so I value his opinion on this matter.

Most people do not believe in cleaning and maintenance. My best example is go look at used boats that have been in salt water. Nothing works and everything is corroded.
Have a guy at my range that shoots a flintlock. When he's done shooting, he plugs the vent hole and pours some windshield washer fluid down the barrel. Shakes back and forth a few times and pours it out. Does it one more time and declares the gun "clean". I'm surprised it still fires.
Most people at my range won't shoot black powder just because there is so much cleaning involved.

I agree with your appraisal! Mike D.

I shot a little of the Pyrodex when it first came out. Later on I started using a lot of Tripple seven 2f and some Goex. I like these powders a whole lot better. While working in the local sport shop part time the rep for American Pioneer told us you didn't have to clean when using it?? Says on the bottle to clean after use. Also found American Pioneer powder to be like kitty litter. Had couple bottles given to me. The 3F was ok, but the 2F was so much like kitty litter I could not get it to go through my flask.

I'm late to the conversation, and new to MLs, but I'll put my 2c in on Pyrodex. I've only used that BP sub so far, and only a dozen shots. As eaglenester said above, it seems to rust quickly. The rifling in my CVA Frontier is discolored and the cleaning patches won't get it. As for the grain size, the FFG won't come out of my flask spout w/o shaking it like a salt shaker. No way would it work in my horn. Also seemed to have a delay in igniting once or twice, even with magnum primers.

I just bought a bottle of Tripple 7 FFG, fine as coffee grounds, should pour well. I hope to try it soon.

While I have never met anyone who has used real BP and Pyrodex would ever choose Pyrodex over BP, but sometimes it is just more convenient to do so. The notion often spread that Pyrodex is some evil powder with magical percholates clinging to your bore forever like feeding ticks is a might overblown. As added insurance, if you clean with water it's never a bad idea to follow up with one of the solvents like Ballistol/water mix or anyone of the good cleaning solvents that were designed back in the day to remove corrosive primer residue from cartridge guns.

A little context- a lot of new shooters start out with Pyrodex because that's all the local gun shop sells, and being new they haven't yet learned how to properly clean a gun. I'd be willing to bet that is where a lot of the corrosion boogeyman talk stems from- inexperience.

Pyrodex is harder to clean out and takes more cleaning work. Seems as if 100 more patches are needed.

Treat them all as corrosive and clean like your life depends on it. Poor maintenance is bad, bad maintenance is destructive.

eaglesnester said:

Pyrodex forms percolates=almost immediate rust. Percolates bind with the steel in the bore and are almost impossible to remove even with the most robust cleaning.

Click to expand...

Malarky!!! i dont' care what kind of awards he's won; the master gunmaker is dead wrong.

In 1999 or 2000 i bought a new CVA Stag Horn rifle. After firing at least 3,000 rounds fueled by Pyrodex the bore looks new. The rifle has always been cleaned using a patch wet Windex with vinegar followed by two patches wet with tap water then dry patches. Takes me less than 15 minutes to clean and oil that rifle.

None of this stuff is rocket science.

As I’ve stated many times before. I much prefer Pyrodex and love the stuff for my cappers. Do not believe all the bs on these forums about how bad it is. Treat and clean it just like real black, all will be good and the world will keep on spinning!
Walk

Walking Eagle is correct. If you properly clean the Pyrodex fouling you won't be finding out how corrosive the fouling is. The BS I have espoused is aimed at the folks that think just because there is little apparent fouling, that you don't have to clean the firearm thoroughly. Always clean and use a long lasting, rust inhibiting lube.

If one doesn't clean well, and doesn't use a good rust inhibiting lube, then that person will find out just how bad and corrosive Pyrodex fouling can be.

For many years, usually very close to deer season, i would get a big bunch of neglected muzzleloaders to clean up. i would spend hours working on some lazy butts dirty and rusted gun. Invariably some hunter would complain because Evapo Rust/jewelers rouge/steel wool failed to restore the bore of his rifle to pristine condition.

Then one year i stopped wasting my time on trashed muzzleloaders. If the owners don't care enough to clean their guns neither do i.

PeteDavis said:

Everyone I know that jumped on the pyrodex bandwagon in the 1980's now has trashed bores. Is this a cleaning issue or is pyrodex more corrosive than black?

PD (your severely twisted appalachian seventh cousin)

Click to expand...

While I know that my memory is not what it use to be, I seem to remember that Pyrodex and the other BP subs became popular because of shipping. I remember being told by my local gun shop that to get real BP he had to either go and pick it up somewhere himself or have someone bring it to him and that the vehicle had to have a special box to hold it and have all the hazmat markings on it indicating that he was carrying explosives while the subs could be shipped via UPS making it much easier to obtain.

As for corrosiveness I will simply say that it is a matter of cleaning. I have used both in my various cappers and it did not seem to matter. What did matter was if I got lazy or had something come up once I got home from the range and did not clean my guns right away. I have a nice 1858 with some specking on the cylinder due to letting it sit overnight.

Clean, clean, clean. I will say, that I like my Hawken, with its hooked breech barrel and barrel tenon pins which allow me to take it off to clean so easily vs my flinters where the barrels are held on with pins that you should not remove regularly. I like my French pattern flinters better with the barrel bands that slide off and allow me to remove the barrel for cleaning. Just my preference.

coloradoclyde said:

It actually takes a lot to "trash" a bore.

Click to expand...

Hey, some individuals can (tear up an anvil with a feather duster in the desert). An old saying that I have heard for years, especially in my younger days. I would say these individuals were very well talented, maybe even to the point of trashing a rifle barrel. I have seen rifle barrels that just looked awful and cleaned them to a serviceable condition, I am not saying perfect, but useable. Seems as though the barrel can get a seasoning on the inside like an old cast iron skillet if it has been cleaned in it's younger life. The more the barrel is fired and cleaned the better it gets. I have never turned down a crusted rifle bore.
I am new to pyrodex, couple of months, I always had black powder, so far I have no argument for either one ,but I'm not very finicky and am an expert on not much.

Pyrodex means cheap Renegades for reboring to rifling of your own design!
:thumbs up:

nkbj said:

Pyrodex means cheap Renegades for reboring to rifling of your own design!
:thumbs up:

Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more.....I recently had Mr. Hoyt open up a Renegade I recently purchased. It was a .56 smoothbore and crusty in the bore. I had him open it up to a .58 smoothbore and it looks good. Haven't had time to shoot it much yet, but it looks promising.
I tried Pyrodex "once" in my shooting....and was very disappointed with it. It's plain old black for me for the rest of my time.

I too suffer from scaly .56 syndrome (previous owner didn't clean properly).
Was thinking maybe turning it into a .577 minie gun with progressive depth 48" twist rifling like was originally supplied in the Pattern 1858 and became so renown for accuracy... but I've already got a HP musketoon in the rack.

I think it probably a spelling mistake, but there is no chemical called a "percolate." Probably meant perchlorate. That said. Potassium perchlorate is an oxidizer in Pyrodex. When ignited, the oxygen part of the molecule separates and reacts to make heat, left behind is the Potassium and the Chlorine, combined in the form of Potassium chloride. KCl is a salt, used to flavor food by people on a low Sodium diet. It is very corrosive. Try this, mix a concentrated solution of KCl or NaCl (table salt) and drop a nail in it, check it a week later.

I know several people at my club that use Pyrodex, clean properly when done, and have no corrosion issues. I use BP, usually Swiss. Whatever you use, clean it well the day you shoot. No, "Oh, I'll do it tomorrow."