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Minie Ball Skirt Expansion

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Trep44

32 Cal
Joined
Jan 24, 2019
Messages
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Location
Laguna Woods, CA
I plan to take my Remington Zouave out to the range next week. I resized my .575 minies and lubed them with SPG. I read somewhere that some guys fill the minie ball rear cavity with Crisco, to help with expansion?

I purchased my Navy Arms Remington Zoli, used back in 1975. Just looked at the lock. It is stamped 1960. My barrel serial number is 740. When did Zoli start making these rifles?
 
Filling the hollow base of a Minie' bullet won't have any effect at all on the expansion of the base.

Without anything in it, the gas pressure will act directly on the inside wall of the bullet to expand it.

With Crisco or any other thing like Bore Butter the gas pressure will pressurize the grease and it will transmit the pressure to the inside wall of the bullet which will also expand it. (Fluids like oil, water and grease don't compress. They just transfer the energy to whatever is containing them.)

The only thing the Crisco or grease will do is to partially vaporize and coat the fouling in the bore as the bullet travels out of the barrel. This can help to keep the fouling soft so loading the next shot may be easier to do.
 
I shoot in the North South Skirmish Association and yeah, we shoot minies, along with artillery.

How we shoot minies with great accuracy-
1) size minie to .001-2 under bore size. Hopefully, your musket is accurately marked as to bore size (that's a rare find!)
2) lube- SPG is ok, ask 5 skirmishers, get 8 answers. I've found SPG marginal. Beeswax/lard 50/50 has tested best so far. Others have their own concoctions. One of my muskets prefers a beeswax/oliveoil/graphite mix. The other prefers the lard mix. Go figure, you have to experiment.
3) Minies MUST be pure lead to properly expand and grip the rifling.
4) Filling the base with Crisco- Why? You only change the actual weight of the minie and that affects accuracy. We call that a Mississippi tracer since it leaves a faint smoke trail. NOBODY in our competition org anywhere near the top shoots with base filled with anything.
5) Don't get caught up in large powder charges. Most minies shoot best with about 60% of service charge. Service charge was 60g 2f. Most of our guys are shooting anywhere from 35-45g 2or3f. With minies and black powder, a point of diminishing returns is quickly reached where no more velocity is gained and accuracy is nonexistent.

Let us know how it goes
 
5) Don't get caught up in large powder charges. Most minies shoot best with about 60% of service charge. Service charge was 60g 2f. Most of our guys are shooting anywhere from 35-45g 2or3f.

No one seems to ask what distances people are shooting at. One rule does not fit all. I’m quite content with my match winning results and large powder charge (80 grains Swiss No. 4 (1.5fg)) but I want something that is accurate at 600 yards. With that same load I won matches last year at 100m, an aggregate fired at 200, 300 & 400 yards and another fired at 300, 500 & 600 yards, using my original Enfield and Minie bullets. I don’t put lube in the base of the bullet.

David
 
Hi,
Like Dave951 says, to get any accuracy from a minie, the bullet must be .001-.002 undersize.
It takes a little work to accurately measure your bore size, but the rewards are well worth the effort.
Research Press, I have shot minies for many years and thought 100 yards was about the maximum distance to expect any accuracy with the minie.
I know it will travel 600 yards but the bullet drop is tremendous, your elevation must be thirty five+ degrees ?
Fred
 
No one seems to ask what distances people are shooting at. One rule does not fit all. I’m quite content with my match winning results and large powder charge (80 grains Swiss No. 4 (1.5fg)) but I want something that is accurate at 600 yards. With that same load I won matches last year at 100m, an aggregate fired at 200, 300 & 400 yards and another fired at 300, 500 & 600 yards, using my original Enfield and Minie bullets. I don’t put lube in the base of the bullet.

David

On our side of the pond, there are few matches past 100yds that involve the minie bullets. What happens here is Joe Average gets a Zouave musket and wants to go shoot. Guy at the local gun store is the "expert" and recommends a starting charge of 80gr 2f. I'd bet that the skirts on your minies being shot out to 600+ with that charge are substantially thicker than what's common here. I wish we had a competition like what you shoot.
 
I have shot minies for many years and thought 100 yards was about the maximum distance to expect any accuracy with the minie.
The sights on the rifle only start at 100 yards! When the NRA(UK) held their first annual rifle meeting at Wimbledon in 1860 this included events for Enfield rifles out to 600 yards. From 1860 to 1870 the first stage of the Queen’s Prize was fired at 200 (300 in 1860), 500 and 600 yards by British Rifle Volunteers using the P.53 Enfield. The rifle considered accurate enough for target shooting competition at distances beyond that, and that is where the muzzle loading small-bore (.451) military match and later match rifles came into their own.

Set the slide on your rearsight to 600 yards to see the elevation.

On our side of the pond, there are few matches past 100yds that involve the minie bullets.
I get the impression that for organised competition with the military muzzle loading rifle there isn’t much at distances beyond 100 yards other then in the UK. I post from time to time to try and raise awareness of the potential for such with these rifles and have a short article on Long Range Shooting with the Military Muzzle Loading Rifle on my web site.

The Muzzle Loaders Association of Great Britain have National Rifle Championship matches for Enfield Rifles at 50 and 100 metres, plus 200, 300, 500 and 600 yards. The 50m match is fired offhand. All others are prone with the military sling permitted for support (no rests). A club I am in has a military muzzle loader match at 600 & 800 yards, and the NRA(UK) and other clubs have matches at 200-600yds. It’s a great discipline and much of the skill comes from figuring out how far off you need to aim for the prevailing wind conditions! :)

David
 
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Greatly appreciate everyone's input! I will be shooting at 50 yards. That is the max distance available at my local range. I would have to travel over 2 hours each way to get out to 100 - 200 yards. I thought I would start by shooting a group at 60g 2f. Then drop 5gs with each new group and see what happens?

Chuck
 
I fail to see what the purpose of the crisco in the hollow of the base serves other than give you some more grease for the fouling to stick to. Now putting tracer compound in there I could see a purpose for it--well--sort of.
 
Powder saturated with Crisco isn't going to burn too good. From shot to shot it will be another variable introduced in your shooting. And for the really icky part I can describe what happened with a Zouave I once owned. The non-combusted powder formed into a layer of greasy coal compacted in the ignition channel and had to be chipped out. What a mess!
 
Skip the Crisco. The first BP gun I ever shot was my Zouave back in '73. Having read up on what the ex-spurts advised, I lubed the bases. After a couple of rounds I started having hang fires. No thank you. Oh, and I was shooting 65 grains, too. Wearing a thin T-shirt, that brass butt plate made for some colorful bruises.
 
I fail to see what the purpose of the crisco in the hollow of the base serves other than give you some more grease for the fouling to stick to. Now putting tracer compound in there I could see a purpose for it--well--sort of.

There actually were some .577 rounds used during the 1860's war that were designed to set off powder supplies.
 
Skip the Crisco. The first BP gun I ever shot was my Zouave back in '73. Having read up on what the ex-spurts advised, I lubed the bases. After a couple of rounds I started having hang fires. No thank you. Oh, and I was shooting 65 grains, too. Wearing a thin T-shirt, that brass butt plate made for some colorful bruises.

'Xactly right, makes for blockages in the ignition channel.
 
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