Fire sale

I had the unfortunate experience recently of watchng my boat go up in smoke on the highway. Unfortunately my Lyman great plains rifle was inside it at the time not to mention other very expensive items.

I salvaged the barrel from the aftermath along with parts. Obviously the stock was destroyed so I am looking to build my first stock to replace it.

I'm thinking of shortening the barrel to 28 inches. I'm wondering if anyone could give me the dimensions of a Lyman great plains stock and/or a Lyman trade rifle.
E.g.. drop at heel. Length of stock. Depth of forearm etc.

I've not done much stock work before so any help or advice would be be very much appreciated.

Wow! Very sorry for your loss's in that fire! My first advise would be to make sure your reclaimed barrel has not been warped by the heat it has gone through.

I once bought a T\C Hawken that was over heated in a fire. The stock was still present but was scorched badly and the barrel, which appeared OK at first sight was later discovered had warped slightly.

Good advice. Thankyou.
I kind of thought if you blow torch them to brown them it shouldn't be a problem .

If your barrel and lock are salvageable you may consider the T/C replacement stock from Pecatonica Long Rifle. Here is why I say this before someone starts screaming T/C and Lyman are not the same...they are not, but close enough the stock would work. Plus, you would have nearly all of your basic work you were inquiring about already cut out for you. You would have to request the 15/16 barrel channel and request it not be inlet for under lugs or escutcheons. This way you could inlet for the two under lugs and four escutcheon plates Lyman uses. Since it would be your first effort, it may save you a lot of troubles, plus the cost for a maple stock is only $125

http://www.longrifles-pr.com/thompsoncenter.shtml

I believe that is the best or quickest option unless you want to do a full blown build. In that sort of case, you'd probably do well to change several parts. The difference in time is 30 hours vs. a couple of hundred for first time builders.

Back when I took some basic gunsmithing courses we were taught that if the fire was hot enough to char the wood the gun was scrap metal. If it has been hot enough that the springs have lost their temper than the gun is toast (literally). The temperature in an average house fire (couldn't find it for a boat) is 1100 degrees farenheit. Here is a link to some good information on the subject:

https://www.turnbullrestoration.com/my-firearm-is-fire-damaged-what-do-i-do-now/

And if you don't feel like reading everything:
"Can I tell if something’s “too far gone”, or do I need an expert to determine that for me?
Here are a few tell-tale signs:

• Warping
• Singed or burned-off wood
• Melted plastic
• Pitting or scaliness in the bluing
• After cleaning any bluing is completely removed"

Im with hawkeye...i don't believe anything could be salvaged save a patchbox, butt plate, trim, guards, etc.

I based this on seeing a pickup bed full of charred barrels and stocks. I was at a friend's gunsmith shop and this guy pulled up.
My friend told him the temper would've been lost in the barrels, bolts, actions etc.

I think the same applies here.

Check with your insurance, you maybe covered under Homeowner's or Personal Auto.

Thanks for the replies. Nobody has actually answered the question yet though regarding stock dimensions. I picked up some decent stock wood yesterday to carve out a replacement .
I will take all precautions regarding the metal, especially the barrel.

If the barrel wasn't warped by the heat, I wouldn't worry about it.

That adage about junking guns that have been in a fire is based on modern guns that shoot smokeless powder. These guns almost always have their steel parts hardened and tempered so they can withstand the high pressures made by smokeless powder. (Most .22's aren't hardened but anything bigger almost always is.)

The fire won't soften a low carbon steel barrel any more than a hot rolled steel shaft is when it comes from the factory. For black powder, that's good enough.

The springs in the lock will be ruined though. They could be re-heat treated and tempered but that is risky for a spring. Springs are rather temperamental.

I've heard of lots of guns lost in "boating accidents" but never one lost in a "boat fire."

A+ for originality.

I was given two very old Uberti Colts that were dug from the ashes of a total loss house fire. Both revolvers were still in what was left of their holsters. The finish had been burned from the grips of the 1851 Navy and the bluing was burned away in large blotchy areas. The Walker was in better condition. The springs on both guns were toast. My friend who owned the revolvers, lost everything else in the fire. He contacted Navy Arms and asked if they could inspect and restore the guns. Both guns were gone through thoroughly. They were returned to my friend with all new internal parts. The blemishes from the fire remained. Navy Arms made the repairs for free and certified the safety of both revolvers. I’ve been shooting them for twenty plus years with no problems.

I don't know the dimensions, and am not a stock maker, though I've tried. I think one important thing is to do the barrel inletting before getting too far along in the shaping of the wood. I'd suggest talking with someone who does make stocks before starting. You don't want to waste your nice piece of wood.
I'm sorry to hear of your loss.

My friends house burned down a couple of years ago. His entire collection of firearms, including 7 muzzle loaders were inside. Sick at the lost he checked with every gunsmith in the area,as well as most of the manufacturers, they all agreed "the firearms are no longer firearms, at best interesting paper weights". He still kept looking for some qualified person to tell him otherwise, to date no one has.

Like I said, a fire will ruin springs but the heat will not damage the strength of a muzzleloading guns barrel.

That said, it is very likely the gunsmiths that said the guns were only good for paper weights were right.

The heat of a fire will rapidly heat up the exposed part of the barrel while the wood stock will protect it for a little while. Then the wood stock burns heating up the other side of the barrel. All of this uneven heating can cause the barrel to bend and twist leaving it that way after the fire is out.
Bent barrels, especially with multiple bends in them usually can't be straightened out to the point that they will be very accurate again.
I suppose there are some gun smiths that could straighten out a warped barrel but the cost would likely be more than the barrel was worth.

Zonie said:

Like I said, a fire will ruin springs but the heat will not damage the strength of a muzzleloading guns barrel.

That said, it is very likely the gunsmiths that said the guns were only good for paper weights were right.

The heat of a fire will rapidly heat up the exposed part of the barrel while the wood stock will protect it for a little while. Then the wood stock burns heating up the other side of the barrel. All of this uneven heating can cause the barrel to bend and twist leaving it that way after the fire is out.
Bent barrels, especially with multiple bends in them usually can't be straightened out to the point that they will be very accurate again.
I suppose there are some gun smiths that could straighten out a warped barrel but the cost would likely be more than the barrel was worth.

Click to expand...

Zonie, what about the threads on the breach plug/breach and the drum/bolster? Wouldn't the heat soften those critical parts and or threads?
That's where pressure is highest, and where my ugly mug would be closest to danger.

But to the OP, if you deem it safe to restock the rifle I would turn to TOTW, buy a set of "blueprints" for a rifle style you want to emulate for about 10 bucks.

Another option is go over to the Percussion Rifle Thread, ask the owner of a similar rifle to take some measurements for you.

I doubt many "smiths on here have built a stock for a rifle in mass production, so find someone who has one.

Good luck, be safe.

Basically what I was saying is, low carbon steel that has been in a fire has the same strength as the same low carbon steel that just came out of a hot rolled steel rolling mill and it will work nicely to make a muzzleloading gun barrel. This includes the threads that are machined into the barrel or breech plug.

Now, cold rolled low carbon steel usually has a little higher tensile and yield strength than hot rolled steel and this strength will be lost after the barrel was in a hot fire but truth be known, cold rolled steel is not the preferred type of steel to make these parts from. It's higher strength isn't really needed for the job and other important characteristics such as its ductility is worse than hot rolled steel.

Long story short, if the threads were good before the fire they will still be good after the fire.

I did forget to mention several parts in the lock that will be damaged.

In addition to the springs, the tumbler and the sear will loose their hardness and unless they are rehardened and tempered they will wear out after only a few shots are fired.

This is better news. I have to give them a proper inspection. I actually have a spare Lyman lock. Going to make some hybrid trade rifle/deerstalker/ great plains rifle . Shorten it up so it will travel better.
Thanks guys
I'll keep you posted

Go to TOTW rifle kits... each rifle has a set of plans on 1:1 scale, and they're under $10, IIRC. I did that to build my Early Lancaster LR, I also got plans for their Fusil DeChasse and English Fowler for future projects.

Well I cut the barrel down to a more manageable 28 inches. Then I had my first go at dovetailing for the front sight. Surprised myself at how easy I made it look!

Inside of barrel seems to be fine. Thinking of making a tang out of the barrel offcut. Any safety reasons not to?