Had a friend who knew I was getting into small caliber muzzle loading introduce me to a gentleman who due to age and health was getting rid of lots of old muzzle loading supplies. We met and he gave me 8 lbs of 3f goex although some of the cans were so old the company name wasn't goex . Cans were in excellent condition and had been kept dry. Went to range with my 32 TC Cherokee and shot 12 loads using 20 grains with a .310 ball and .018 pillow ticking patch and Hoppes patch lube and had a little better group than I had had with Swiss 3f. Then shot 12 rounds using 15 grains and group came in much tighter. I had been using same charges of Swiss but may back those charges down a bit and see how groups look since I have been told Swiss burns hotter than Goex. But overall really liked it, cleanup was no different and 8 lbs at 15 grains a shot will definitely last a while. Also wanted to thank all of you for the advice and information I have gotten I am really enjoying the small caliber muzzle loaders that I own and am getting much better at developing loads.