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Primitive Hunt Regulation

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cannonball1

40 Cal.
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Mar 11, 2014
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Our State has totally ruined the primitive hunts with allowing high power scopes and modern muzzleloaders. Now they are getting pressure for having a truly primitive hunt with pistols, archery, and muzzleloaders combined. In the year 2020 they are thinking of a limited entry deer hunt and are asking for input. Excluding the pistols and archery, what would a good description be of the limitations for a muzzleloader. I live out West with Mule Deer and open country. Would appreciate any comments for those restrictions.
 
I have been trying to get a primitive weapons only season here in CT for years. I suggested long bows or recurve bows and flintlocks using patched round balls only. So far no one seems interested. Here in CT the bow season is far longer than any other deer season. I have been hoping for the suggested primitive season as an early season (mid Oct). By the time our firearms season comes around, the bow /cross bow hunters have been in the woods for 2 1/2 months.
 
Good afternoon
The crossbow far outdates the flintlock and recurves. The crossbow was well fielded by German and Austrian and even Russians in the early 1500's and probably before. I have piled up 50 or so corn crunchers with recurves and the only longbow I have seen in the river bottoms is mine.

It will depend on how each of us define primitive. Primitive to some means pre- Plymouth rock. Pre- European influence.
To a more modern thinker then a matchlock. Yes I have one.
My earliest flintlock has 1750 metal parts but is restocked... some might say that is primitive.
I say my model 1819 Hall Breach loader Flintlock is primitive... far older than what most hunt with but some would cut me out.
Good friend of mine would say the cap lock is the line and he is near 90. But some would deny him the opportunity to pop a corn cruncher with his 1850's made caplock.
So lets be careful how we who use modern made replica flint lock firearms (yes I do also) out in the bushes try to rule over others.
If there are not enough bean crunchers out there for all of us then maybe the majority of hunters will one day decide we do not belong.
 
I regulate myself, so the sanctioned use of advanced hunting gear doesn't perturb me.

Yes, in my state I can legally use a crossbow or a scoped/inline frontstuffer, but I chose not to.

I no longer bowhunt due to physical/medical reasons that prevent me from drawing a bow, but used both recurves & long bows when I did.

I continue to use sidelock front stuffers with iron/open sights for all my "primitive" hunting.

I'm fortunate (?) in that my state is so densely populated that there's few places where a shot on game is presented more that 100yds away, and usually occurs around 50yds (+/-).

While I understand the predicament for folks faced with longer shooting distances, I also realize that our forefathers didn't have these modern contrivances available to them at the time, and just shot/took whatever they could, wherever they could.

For those folks, I recommend extended long-range practice. ;)
 
Side lock, open sights, and has to be either an authentic, or reproduction thereof, of a firearm from say no later than 1840.. No inlines, modern scopes, fiber optic sights. Roundballs or conical ammunition only.
 
I have been trying to get a primitive weapons only season here in CT for years. I suggested long bows or recurve bows and flintlocks using patched round balls only. So far no one seems interested. Here in CT the bow season is far longer than any other deer season. I have been hoping for the suggested primitive season as an early season (mid Oct). By the time our firearms season comes around, the bow /cross bow hunters have been in the woods for 2 1/2 months.
Why does the round ball have to be patched?

I would agree however that for the "primitive" firearm part of the regulation it should be a side lock (preferable flintlock or matchlock), wood stock, no scopes, no saboted slugs, rifles or smoothbore. 45 caliber and up for deer and larger.

I would love to see such a season here in CT. But, I would call it a traditional equipment season. It would be great if it could be in early to mid October so we aren't freezing our privates off like our current black powder season. I'd love to see it include a restriction on training wheel bows and only allow longbow, recurves, and primitive bows, but, I think we'd be shooting ourselves in the foot so to speak. One unfortunately needs to account for the people who will have no interest in actually learning about, and how to properly use these weapons and just want to take advantage of another season. I could definitely see people going and buying the cheapest longbow or recurve they can get there hands on, most likely at too high a draw weight for their actual ability to use, not bother to take the considerable time to learn to shoot it, and set archery hunting back 70 years buy filling the area with wounded deer, then claiming traditional tackle can't be used effectively.

As far as the o.p. being out west with, "open country," if guys like Don Thomas and Fred Asbel can take game in the open west with longbow and recurve, one can take game with open sighted (to include peep/ghost ring sights) flintlocks.
 
Here in Oregon our muzzloader only seasons require an open ignition, no pelletized powder, no scopes, no bullets with plastic tips or bases, and no sabots, but we can use copper bullets.

Last year they proposed doing away with the open ignition law, as well as the no plastic rule, and allowing pelletized powder. I, as well as lots of others, argued these changes go against the ODFW goal of keeping muzzloader hunting a short range, primitive style of hunting. Allot of people must of been against the changes, because thankfully they didn't adopt them. Call or write your wildlife commission and voice your concerns, it might make them reconsider
 
I would like to see a 10 day Flintlock/PRB only (or smoothbore) season in AZ, Maybe running along with the first week or archery season?

When I was a youngster I recall there were about 1/4th the seasons there are now, it is getting complicated. I dont recall archery but there was deer season in late Oct. and elk season with Bull/Cow being separated and in the area of Thanksgiving. Now from mid August through 12-31 the critters here are hunted hard. About September most have adopted the nocturnal habits I so hate.
 
What would the turnout be with those regulations in place?

I, for one, don’t care for how the muzzleloader season allows inlines and such, but to exclude caplocks seems a bit much.
PA has had the Flintlock only since they started and draw a big following. It would be much better than the pellet modern in-line with scopes that the only reason they hunt it is for the extra days.

I could live with side lock cappers also as long as in the primitive spirit instead of the changed season of if it stuffs from the front it is a muzzleloader.
 
PA has had the Flintlock only since they started and draw a big following. It would be much better than the pellet modern in-line with scopes that the only reason they hunt it is for the extra days.

I could live with side lock cappers also as long as in the primitive spirit instead of the changed season of if it stuffs from the front it is a muzzleloader.

I wonder if a large part of why there is a lot of participation in PA with flintlocks is due to re-enactors.

I know my father has some caplocks and an in-line. Other than him I don’t know of anyone who shoots BP and have only once come across someone else shooting a BP revolver, but have one other occasion seen someone who clearly does CASS. I’ve only seen people with BP guns along the east coast doing re-enactments.
 
Here in Oregon our muzzloader only seasons require an open ignition, no pelletized powder, no scopes, no bullets with plastic tips or bases, and no sabots, but we can use copper bullets.

Last year they proposed doing away with the open ignition law, as well as the no plastic rule, and allowing pelletized powder. I, as well as lots of others, argued these changes go against the ODFW goal of keeping muzzloader hunting a short range, primitive style of hunting. Allot of people must of been against the changes, because thankfully they didn't adopt them. Call or write your wildlife commission and voice your concerns, it might make them reconsider

Oregon, I really like your states regulations. I am talking about Utah and our Big Game Board which is pretty much self-serving and legalized everything and anything with muzzleloaders. I am sure this will in no way eliminate the present muzzleloading hunt. When they legalized scopes it ruined the muzzleloader deer hunt and our good old days are gone forever. It will just be a limited entry special hunt probably during the rut. I plan on gleaning the information to come up with what I like from all of your recommendations that I think they might consider, then submit to the Regional members and the Big Game Board. Thanks to all of you.
 
  • Scopes (permanent and detachable), and sights that use batteries, artificial light or energy are not allowed during muzzleloader-only seasons and, except for visually impaired hunters who have a visual acuity of ≤ 20/200 with lenses or visual field of ≤ 20 degrees (a permit is required). Open and peep sights made from alloys, plastic, or other materials that do not have the properties described above are legal sights. Fiber optics and fluorescent paint incorporated into or on open or iron sights are legal.

  • It is illegal to hunt with on-lead bullets, jacketed bullets, sabots, and bullets with plastic or synthetic bases during muzzleloader-only seasons. Conical lead or lead alloy bullets with a length that does not exceed twice the diameter and lead or lead alloy round balls used with cloth, paper, or felt patches are allowed.

  • It is illegal to hunt with centerfire primers as an ignition source during muzzleloader-only seasons, to keep this a truly primitive hunt side hammer guns are the only ignition allowed.

  • It is illegal to hunt with pelletized powders or propellants during muzzleloader-only seasons. Granular (loose) black powder and black powder substitutes are the only legal propellants during muzzleloader-only seasons.

  • No other firearm may be used for hunting during a muzzleloader-only season.

  • Muzzleloading firearms with revolving actions are prohibited during muzzleloader-only seasons.

Here is what I have written for the Utah BGB. With a few changes, this came from Oregon's muzzleloading restrictions. Any suggestions for changes?
 
When the PA muzzle loading season was established back in the day the rule was simple, "a single barrel flintlock long gun with open iron sights firing a round ball of at least .44 dia." That was it. The Pa. Federation of Black Powder Shooters pushed for the season which started on Dec. 26th and ran till the 3rd Saturday after Christmas. The ML stamp cost $5.00. The PA game comm. figured that by then the snow was deep and all hunting seasons were closed, so why not and they could make some money from it. I think the first year they sold about 200 licenses.

Once in lines became popular they wanted in, but the Federation and the flint shooters and hunters held them off for years. But they became more in number and they ended up with a one week doe season in October for "any muzzleloader". They got their scopes and sabots and pellets and we kept our flintlock Christmas hunt.

About 2009 or so some wanted to hunt with pistols, so after about 2 years of study they allowed flintlock pistols of at least 50 cal. to be used in either season. About this time they also added fiber optic sights and Maxi-ball type bullets to the Christmas season for rifles.

The big draw for the after Christmas flintlock season was that the kids were off school, the hustle of pre Christmas was over, and people found that it was fun to hunt in the snow with a flintlock for deer and Pa. has a lot of flintlock hunters and shooters.

I think they now sell about 25,000 licenses and they cost $15.00, but there is still an after Christmas flint lock only deer hunt in PA.
 
I support a traditional muzzleloader hunt. I would like to see "antique and reproductions of arms made prior to 1899" that load through the muzzle and use powder and projectile that is loaded separately and ignited with a percussion cap or musket cap, flintlock or, wheellock or matchlock. No plastic sabots. Balls can be patched or projectiles can be full-bore. Leave the sights alone - in other words, don't regulate what kind of sight. If it is a sidelock with a scope so be it. Some folks cannot use sights and sometimes an optic can be a safety for people with poor vision.
 
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