Throwing hawks or knives in combat?

Wes/Tex said:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-bbVMsNA7tSw/VgHRCytJFBI/AAAAAAAAuoQ/P-StoA7DZDU/s1600/FB_IMG_1442952912290.jpg

The other way to go!

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Wow, I wish I had had that illustration in the latter stages of my Career on Active Duty. I used to joke that this "Old Man" or "Dinosaur" did things that would help ensure my younger Marines would have a hugely better chance of surviving in combat, if they really followed my example and what I was teaching them and the standards I held myself and them to. I was also able to influence and assist many Officers younger and even a few older than me.

Gus

Wes/Tex said:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-bbVMsNA7tSw/VgHRCytJFBI/AAAAAAAAuoQ/P-StoA7DZDU/s1600/FB_IMG_1442952912290.jpg

The other way to go!

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Love it. I may capture and make a print to hang in my so-called office.

:thumbsup:

The version I heard was, "Never fight with old guys, they know they can't win a fair fight so will just kill you!" :wink:

I had an incident three years ago Christmas when three little punks decided they were going to mug the old Santa-looking guy for his money. Dumb little numb-nuts. Kept backing up till they pushed it too far then out popped the Boker...SNAP! Bet they're a lot more circumspect now! :haha:

Never been in a fair fight, when you do you have fornicated in an ascending manner.

Wes/Tex said:

:thumbsup:

The version I heard was, "Never fight with old guys, they know they can't win a fair fight so will just kill you!" :wink:

I had an incident three years ago Christmas when three little punks decided they were going to mug the old Santa-looking guy for his money. Dumb little numb-nuts. Kept backing up till they pushed it too far then out popped the Boker...SNAP! Bet they're a lot more circumspect now! :haha:

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Haven't carried it yet, but now that I am using a cane I have built myself several. One is a 1" hickory shaft topped with an antique cast brass horse haim tip. Solid and heavy. If it hits anything it will hurt. I call it my "New Orleans walking stick". Old don't mean helpless.

Rifleman1776 said:

Haven't carried it yet, but now that I am using a cane I have built myself several. One is a 1" hickory shaft topped with an antique cast brass horse haim tip. Solid and heavy. If it hits anything it will hurt. I call it my "New Orleans walking stick". Old don't mean helpless.

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My old pard Charley had a walking stick with about a three inch solid brass ball on the end...bouncing that off of anything got teh point across! :wink:

Orvis still sells a "Horse Hame" walking stick. The Hame is the brass horn on the harness. There are two of them in a harness curving in opposite directions. There's a solid brass ball on the end of the hame. These are 37" long made out of oak with a brass hame on the end. The hame fits your hand nicely but if you hit someone with that heavy brass hame, odds are it will cave their head in. You really don't want to be on the receiving end of that.



Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:
Dan

That is what I was talking about. You said "solid". Hope so, would be a good defense weapon. But the commercial examples I have seen are thin brass colored metal and not very heavy. I have been looking for a book on stick fighting and how best to use something like this. Right now, my plan would be a quick upward thrust to the bottom of the jaw, then step back and go for the shins and knees. Any fighting experts here that can comment on this?

Plenty of stick fighting references on the internet if you search shillelagh.

I mentioned McLemore's The Fighting Tomahawk upthread. Well, the publisher, Paladin Press, is going out of business, and has cut the price from $45 to just under $7 until the 29th: https://www.paladin-press.com/product/The_Fighting_Tomahawk

If anyone is interested, now is your chance.

The Irish "bata" is the walking stick length version of the smaller and thicker shillelagh (like a night-stick). Blackthorn wood, light, thin, tough and a good defensive weapon.

Here's mine (37-1/2").



In use you hold it at the balance point in the middle. Look up "Whiskey Stick Dancing" or "Bataireacht" for the technique. This has accompanied me to NY City and several state and county fairs in NY and PA.

This one from Orvis is solid and heavy. At $59, it's not cheap, but it's not outrageously expensive either. As I mentioned, I worked for the company for 27 years and I've handled it. The first time I unpacked one I thought, "Man, I'd hate to be hit with this!"

Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:
Dan

I have one of those too - genuine blackthorn from Ireland. My grandkids gave it to me. Guess I'll have to check up on defensive techniques with it.

Thanks for that Stumpy!

Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:
Dan

zimmerstutzen said:

For what it is worth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisca

Franks used the throwing axe in the 5th century

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The first time I saw one'f those in a black powder shop labeled as a "French tomahawk" was close to thirty years ago. Now I see Townsends has 'em, labeled the same, with the bonus of the haft poking out of the head.

Rifleman1776 said:

There is an old saying: "never pick a fight with an old man because if he is too old to fight he will just kill you."

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"Old age and treachery will defeat youth and skill."

Rifleman, Straight thrust to the solar plexus, followed by a upward swipe to the lower jaw and finishing touch with a downward strike to the collar bone. Accomplish this all the while moving forward towards you intended attacker in deliberate steps of about 30in. If the walking stick is about 30in. in length this is a good maneuver. You can practice on a burlap bag stuffed tight with straw and hung from a tree about 5ft. to 6 ft. off the ground. These maneuvers are all done with a two handed hold on the stick. Hold the shaft of the cane as you would a yard rake. Never touch the head above the jaw line it will make a difference when you go to court.

Paul63 said:

Throwing hawks and knives for competition at events is great fun and is seen in many movies but is it documented that they were used in combat as throwing weapons?
Just curious because in combat it seems like throwing your weapon away would not be the best choice for survival in close range combat. :idunno:

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I spent my entire young years throwing everything made and made my own Hawks too. I ruined the side of the old garage. Every single one needed a specific distance to stick a blade. I even was able to throw and stick a long bayonet. You could throw it off distance and do damage from the handle or back of the head but to have the cutting edge hit, means a specific distance.
I just watched the Expendables on TV and is a joke to throw a knife like that. It will NEVER happen. The hawk was a hand tool and was not thrown away.

Seems silly to me to throw away a weapon in a hostile situation, He** you are just giving your opponent a weapon. Really think about it do you possess the mental stamina to be sure it will stick every time in your attacker. Personally I would close quarters and have at it, unless I was able to leave the attacker.