• This community needs YOUR help today. We rely 100% on Supporting Memberships to fund our efforts. With the ever increasing fees of everything, we need help. We need more Supporting Members, today. Please invest back into this community. I will ship a few decals too in addition to all the account perks you get.



    Sign up here: https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/account/upgrades

1803 Harpers Ferry Trigger

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Deina

32 Cal
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Location
Portland, Oregon
Hi all!

This is my first flinter, but when I pull the trigger the cock only falls to the half-cock notch.

What do I need to do to fix this?
 
The Harper's Ferry 1803 has a single trigger. The trigger lever should lift the sear enough so that the nose of the sear clears the half cock notch. The lock does not have a fly in the tumbler to lift the seat over the half cock notch. Most people don't have the light touch on the trigger to have the sear catch the half cock notch.

What is the manufacturer of your rifle?

I suspect that the tumbler is a bit eccentric and the half cock notch is too high with respect to the diameter of the tumbler. If this is a new rifle, then repairs should be done under warranty. Pulling the trigger harder may hide the problem but that will come at the cost of accuracy. The tumbler will likely need to be replaced. Since you are new to flint locks (and I don't know what tools you have for maintaining muzzle loaders), you should contact the manufacturer to see about getting the lock repaired. Simplest repair is to replace the tumbler that is properly hardened and tempered. Otherwise you would need to find an experienced muzzleloading gunsmith to relocate the half cock notch.
 
It's a Navy Arms/Antonio Zoli.

Apparently they haven't made them in 20 years, so parts, let alone warranty, is pretty much out. I've checked Numrich & DGW for a tumbler, but no luck.

One gunsmith suggested putting double set triggers on it, but, much as I love double-sets, they wouldn't be right on this.
 
One gunsmith suggested putting double set triggers on it, but, much as I love double-sets, they wouldn't be right on this.

He is ignorant of these and you are correct..it would not be right. It's not about PC this or PC that...putting sets does not solve the problem but causes several. Namely bependeing on lock design , it could destroy it. Secondly, it's basically redesigning the rifle.

The first thing to do is remove the lock and look in the mortise for any black and shiny spots on the wood. These are places where the mechanism rubs the wood. Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr

Above is a partially completed lock mortise. You can see where the tumbler bridle and parts of the tumbler under it are making contact. Now this is a new stock with sooted parts but even on a finished rifle, contact areas will be visible...they will be shiny. These areas of friction can slow down the lock enough to cause the problem.
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr

The main thing you are checking for is friction points where the lock guts rub the wood. If you have these spots where the wood is in contact with " Moving" parts, you should be able to clean them up with sand paper or a fingernail file. Being a finished gun. Clever and careful use of sand paper should do it. You can wrap some sandpaper around the end a suitable stick...a pencil may work and use it like an eraser on these friction points.

Above the lock mortise is nearly complete. This rifle has a square hole where the sear bar goes. On Your rifle it's a round hole. Above you can see where the the sear spring has printed in 2 spots between the square sear hole and the tumbler bridle mortise. The sear spring does not need to contact the wood.

Look down into the sear hole....look for contact points and slivers of wood or debris.

Operate the trigger. Work it back and fourth to make sure it's not binding in the inlet.


With the lock out....see if it has a fly. If it has a bridle it may be hard to see. Operate the lock cock it release it (do not snap it) right now you are just checking for smoothness.

Flintlocks can bite you if you are not familiar with them. You can snap them out of the rifle but the frizzen needs to always be down. You also have to hold it right. You're not trying to snap it. Snapping one with out the frizzen down can damage the cock. For finger safety it would be a good idea to make a little wooden flint.

All you need to do is inspect it. Work it for smoothness. With WD 40 spray the mechanism...give it a bath...work the lock. Sometimes the bridle screws for the tumbler will be too tight. You may need to back these off just a hair. Take an old tooth brush and give it a scrub.

All you are doing is looking for friction points and making sure the lock mechanism is clean and smooth and not binding from the screws being too tight.

Military locks sometimes have no fly. In operation you have to pull the trigger and keep it pulled. Don't snatch it but follow through with it. Sometimes being to timid in the trigger pull will cause the sear to catch the halfcock notch. On a military gun keep pulling the trigger through the shot.....follow through with it.

SUMMARY ....
Remove the lock. Inspect the lock mortise for contact points with the moving parts. Remove the wear points in the mortise. Make sure the sear hole is clear. Make sure the trigger works smoothly back and fourth.
With the lock in hand work it for smoothness. Make sure the bridle screws are not binding the mechanism. Give it bath in WD 40 as you work it back and fourth. Take a Tooth brush and scrub the lock guts....WD it and work it some more. When it works well oil it with some gun oil. You may have repeat this several times.
Military locks especially those without flys need follow through when you pull the trigger....squeeze the trigger and keep squeezing through the shot or tests.

This lock may need more work. It may need tuned. If so you need some special tools, namely a mainspring vise, super fine files or stones. If the problem persists...the lock will have to be dissembled and tuned. Try this first.
 
I do think doing the inspections that 54ball suggests are good. Its certainly a good procedure to follow to be sure you have the clearances for your lock to work and avoid work on your tumbler that may not be needed.
 
Good information! I'll look into this before I do anything drastic!


He is ignorant of these and you are correct..it would not be right. It's not about PC this or PC that...putting sets does not solve the problem but causes several. Namely bependeing on lock design , it could destroy it. Secondly, it's basically redesigning the rifle.

The first thing to do is remove the lock and look in the mortise for any black and shiny spots on the wood. These are places where the mechanism rubs the wood. Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr

Above is a partially completed lock mortise. You can see where the tumbler bridle and parts of the tumbler under it are making contact. Now this is a new stock with sooted parts but even on a finished rifle, contact areas will be visible...they will be shiny. These areas of friction can slow down the lock enough to cause the problem.
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr

The main thing you are checking for is friction points where the lock guts rub the wood. If you have these spots where the wood is in contact with " Moving" parts, you should be able to clean them up with sand paper or a fingernail file. Being a finished gun. Clever and careful use of sand paper should do it. You can wrap some sandpaper around the end a suitable stick...a pencil may work and use it like an eraser on these friction points.

Above the lock mortise is nearly complete. This rifle has a square hole where the sear bar goes. On Your rifle it's a round hole. Above you can see where the the sear spring has printed in 2 spots between the square sear hole and the tumbler bridle mortise. The sear spring does not need to contact the wood.

Look down into the sear hole....look for contact points and slivers of wood or debris.

Operate the trigger. Work it back and fourth to make sure it's not binding in the inlet.


With the lock out....see if it has a fly. If it has a bridle it may be hard to see. Operate the lock cock it release it (do not snap it) right now you are just checking for smoothness.

Flintlocks can bite you if you are not familiar with them. You can snap them out of the rifle but the frizzen needs to always be down. You also have to hold it right. You're not trying to snap it. Snapping one with out the frizzen down can damage the cock. For finger safety it would be a good idea to make a little wooden flint.

All you need to do is inspect it. Work it for smoothness. With WD 40 spray the mechanism...give it a bath...work the lock. Sometimes the bridle screws for the tumbler will be too tight. You may need to back these off just a hair. Take an old tooth brush and give it a scrub.

All you are doing is looking for friction points and making sure the lock mechanism is clean and smooth and not binding from the screws being too tight.

Military locks sometimes have no fly. In operation you have to pull the trigger and keep it pulled. Don't snatch it but follow through with it. Sometimes being to timid in the trigger pull will cause the sear to catch the halfcock notch. On a military gun keep pulling the trigger through the shot.....follow through with it.

SUMMARY ....
Remove the lock. Inspect the lock mortise for contact points with the moving parts. Remove the wear points in the mortise. Make sure the sear hole is clear. Make sure the trigger works smoothly back and fourth.
With the lock in hand work it for smoothness. Make sure the bridle screws are not binding the mechanism. Give it bath in WD 40 as you work it back and fourth. Take a Tooth brush and scrub the lock guts....WD it and work it some more. When it works well oil it with some gun oil. You may have repeat this several times.
Military locks especially those without flys need follow through when you pull the trigger....squeeze the trigger and keep squeezing through the shot or tests.

This lock may need more work. It may need tuned. If so you need some special tools, namely a mainspring vise, super fine files or stones. If the problem persists...the lock will have to be dissembled and tuned. Try this first.
 
Deina,

As 54Ball mentioned, this problem is often caused by the tail of the sear hitting inside the lock mortise and not allowing the sear nose to be pulled far enough away from the half cock. When the tail of the sear is pushed high enough by the trigger, the sear nose should not hit the half cock notch as it is pulled far enough away. So ensuring that is not happening is the first and easiest thing to check.

You can put grease or lipstick all over the tail of the sear, where it protrudes from the lock. Remount the lock with the cock (hammer) at half cock. Then push the Frizzen forward/down and while holding the cock (hammer) - pull the trigger and gently allow the cock to go all the way down. Pull back on the trigger a few times as far as it will go. Then half cock the cock (hammer) and take the lock back out and see if the grease/lipstick is hitting the wood down inside the mortise. If it is, then that wood must be scraped or cut away and this process repeated until the tail of the sear no longer hits the wood inside the mortise.

If that doesn't do the trick to stop the sear from catching or hitting the half cock, then some of the outside edge of the half cock has to be filed down so the sear nose doesn't hit it as it passed the sear in operation. But before we get into that, ensure the sear leg is not hitting in the mortise.

Gus
 
Last edited:
P.S. Sorry, but I forgot to mention inspecting the full cock notch on the Tumbler to see if it is damaged, chipped or broken. I that is the case, then the full cock notch needs welding, shaping and heat treating. However, that's beyond the ability of most hobbyists, so a new tumbler would probably be a less expensive fix.

Gus
 
Back
Top